Gun for greencard holder and the 90 day rule

[sbaker]

I was at a nice gun shop today, and I wanted to finally pick up my first firearm (a Moss 500 tactical).

Anyway, I asked about the background check for someone like myself who is a legal immigrant holding a greencard. I've lived in PA for the last 9 years. So I was given the rundown of what is required including the 90 day residency. Now, I've lived at my current address for over 3 years. But the gunshop owner told me that the 90 days residency also means that I cannot have left the country for the past 90 days.

Well, I'm from Canada and I visit family up there frequently. This guy was pretty sure (Ed's Sport Shop in Tamaqua - nice shop, nice people) based on years of experience with other greencard customers. But it seems crazy that driving up to Canada for a couple of days to visit for Christmas disqualifies me from getting a firearm.

Does anyone know for sure? I mean, we all might agree (or not) that the rule is silly... but it's the government, I've learned that they are never short on stupid rules that don't make any sense. I really just want to find out for sure before I order anything whether or not I'm going to get past the background check.

[1861]

I believe I've heard that before , but not sure.

[PennsyPlinker]

Kutztown address in Lehigh County, eh? Sorry about the eh, I couldn't resist. Some of my best friends are Canadian. Anyway, that combination represents a very small enclave. You must be a neighbor to me and Mikey!

[VTLO910]

Google ATF Form 4473, Question # 13.

Pretty Clear, even if you have a I-151 Card.

I'll look into it further though just to double check.

[JayBell]

the info you seek:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b13

(B13) May aliens legally in the United States buy firearms?[Back]

An alien legally in the U.S. may acquire firearms if he has a State of residence. An alien has a State of residence only if he is residing in that State and has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase. Examples of qualifying documentation to prove residency include: utility bills, lease agreements, credit card statements, and pay stubs from the purchaser’s place of employment, if such documents include residential addresses.

See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921, 922(b)(3), (d) and (g), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.99(a)]


also see section R, they address Canadians in the US

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#r1

[Philbert]

the info you seek:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b13

(B13) May aliens legally in the United States buy firearms?[Back]

An alien legally in the U.S. may acquire firearms if he has a State of residence. An alien has a State of residence only if he is residing in that State and has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase. Examples of qualifying documentation to prove residency include: utility bills, lease agreements, credit card statements, and pay stubs from the purchaser’s place of employment, if such documents include residential addresses.

See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921, 922(b)(3), (d) and (g), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.99(a)]


also see section R, they address Canadians in the US

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#r1

IANAL, but I think you are resident of the state if you maintain a home and a usual residence there. You might not be physically present at your residence 100% of the time, but I don't think that's required.

[VTLO910]

Green Card Holders get permanent residence status, then go back to the country they came from while aluding to the fact that they have a residence here in the U.s.

The way the ATF Form it is written combats this type of abuse... I'm actually impressed.

Who can leave a primary residence for 90 days without working...? Not too many folks...

So, my advice is to wait the 90 days after your last trip, then make your purchase.

[ADerhammer]

the info you seek:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b13

(B13) May aliens legally in the United States buy firearms?[Back]

An alien legally in the U.S. may acquire firearms if he has a State of residence. An alien has a State of residence only if he is residing in that State and has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days prior to the purchase. An alien acquiring firearms from a licensee is required to prove both his identity, by presenting a government-issued photo identification, and his residency with substantiating documentation showing that he has resided in the State continuously for the 90-day period prior to the purchase. Examples of qualifying documentation to prove residency include: utility bills, lease agreements, credit card statements, and pay stubs from the purchaser’s place of employment, if such documents include residential addresses.

See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921, 922(b)(3), (d) and (g), 27 CFR 478.11 and 478.99(a)]


also see section R, they address Canadians in the US

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#r1

It's a little hazy as to how that is IMHO, If you just need to be in the us for a 90 day period without leaving, and only need to do it once, so if you went to canada after the 90 period and then went to get a firearm you'd be in the clear, can we get a government agency to make clear cut laws for once?

[sbaker]

Wow, thanks for all the responses. I'm new to these forums and I'm always happy to see how passionate people in some parts of this country are about their 2A rights.

I could wait 90 days after a visit and buy then... but it seems like I better save up and buy everything I want during those small windows of time. I've got a few things on my wish list after the Mossberg and it seems pretty limiting to have only a couple small windows of time per year that I can buy.

Something I hadn't thought of for the shotgun or a rifle is that my wife is American. According to the sticky thread about transfer laws in PA, she can transfer to me with no paperwork as long as she doesn't know of anything that would make it illegal for me to possess a firearm.

It really doesn't seem reasonable that they would consider a weekend trip out as a break in residency. I continue to pay my bills during that time. I asked the guy at the shop what if I went up to NY for a weekend and stayed in a hotel? What if I worked in NJ like I used to? Then I'd be traveling out of state every day.

I guess the simple answer to all this is that I became eligible to apply for citizenship a few months back. I'm sure it will take a while, but I should get that ball rolling.

Thanks again to everyone that responded.

[Frenchy]

You have to be Living at one address within the state for 90 days, visiting elsewhere does not make you change this status.

I have had a few gun dealers ask me the question "So you been to Canada lately" I always respond, not since the last time. It is none of the sales person's business where I have been, maybe I went to Ohio in the past 90 days too, or West Virginia, it does not change my permanent resident status.

I would have to read up on it, but you would have to leave the US for 6 months and a day to need special papers to come back as a Permanent resident.

Although you might not be able to take a 90 day vacation financially, living with family often can be very cheap.