What's is this actually saying? Township and firearms.

**rgb03** · December 31st, 2012, 01:00 PM

Saw this posted on the home screen of my townships PD page.

Ordinance #1466

Article 1 Firearms
*
****
48-1 Discharge, carrying, or possession of firearms restricted.*
No person shall, except in necessary defense of person or property,
carry, possess, fire, or discharge any gun, firearm, bow and arrow,
***** BB gun, air gun, spring gun, paintball gun, or any implement which impels
**** with force a metal pellet or projectile of any kind, within the Township of
Springfield; provided, however, nothing herein shall be interpreted to
*********** prohibit the firing or discharge of said implements at properly
constructed and supervised ranges which have been approved by the
Chief of Police of the Township of Springfield.**
Adopted this 11th day of September, 2007 by the
Board of Commissioners of the Township of Springfield.
*
Are they actually trying to say nobody can posses a firearm unless protecting there self or home?

**Svickstc** · December 31st, 2012, 01:02 PM

No i think they're just saying you cant going around shooting outside unless you have a pre approved range...aka cant go off in some vacant wooded area and shoot within the township

but misleading first phrase for sure, typically this is the langauge ive seen

**ungawa** · December 31st, 2012, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by rgb03

Are they actually trying to say nobody can posses a firearm unless protecting there self or home?

Yes, that's what they are saying. It's illegal and unenforceable. Tell them to get rid of it and give you a date by which it will be fixed.

**Svickstc** · December 31st, 2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by ungawa

Yes, that's what they are saying. It's illegal and unenforceable. Tell them to get rid of it and give you a date by which it will be fixed.

Are you sure thats what they're actually saying or just saying someone without proper ltcf or open carry is not permitted?

How could they do this?

**brsims** · December 31st, 2012, 01:22 PM

More attempted anti-firearm legislation from the Land o' Philthy, it appears. The language in the first statement appears to be in violation of PA statutes.

**ungawa** · December 31st, 2012, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Svickstc

Are you sure thats what they're actually saying or just saying someone without proper ltcf or open carry is not permitted?

How could they do this?

Municipalities have been illegally doing this since long before I joined this place.

New instances are still found and posted here every month or so. Do a search of the forum for "preemption" or "violation" in the subject line and you'll find dozens of instances right off the bat.

Heck, there was a push this year to pass legislation to punish these people. Go check the PA law and politics section. I think it's a sticky.

**Svickstc** · December 31st, 2012, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by ungawa

Municipalities have been illegally doing this since long before I joined this place.

New instances are still found and posted here every month or so. Do a search of the forum for "preemption" or "violation" in the subject line and you'll find dozens of instances right off the bat.

Heck, there was a push this year to pass legislation to punish these people. Go check the PA law and politics section. I think it's a sticky.

Wow, news to me, although ive seen this before posted on sites ive always turned my cheek as its a ya ok type of ordnance

**rgb03** · December 31st, 2012, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Svickstc

No i think they're just saying you cant going around shooting outside unless you have a pre approved range...aka cant go off in some vacant wooded area and shoot within the township

but misleading first phrase for sure, typically this is the langauge ive seen

I get the discharge part which makes sense. But the carry and posses part are throwing me off. How could you lawfully protect yourself or property if your are prohibited from possession of a firearm?

**jerkin** · December 31st, 2012, 02:12 PM

The discharge part isn't correct either, they don't have the ability to prohibit hunting in their township.

**GunLawyer001** · December 31st, 2012, 02:22 PM

The locals can regulate discharge of firearms to some degree. Zoning is one way, and we probably don't want apartment dwellers practicing with their Lorcins off the rooftops. Whether they can do the same to the guy with 50 acres of isolated woods, seems unlikely. I think they may be preempted with respect to hunting, but I haven't really cared enough to look into it. They are absolutely preempted when it comes to possession and carry, so their verbiage about self-defense is a legal nullity.

Saying that you can't discharge a firearm unless you're firing it into an aggressor, is just the sort of short-bus work that we find in small town law-making.

I doubt that even local cops are ignorant enough to arrest an LTCF holder for concealed carry in public. There are certainly enough of them to hassle the OC folks, but getting a summary conviction based on their local ordinance would last just long enough to appeal to a real judge in Common Pleas.

The first person arrested under this is the first person with standing to sue them for a Sec. 1983 violation, since it's such a clear and preempted infringement.