Terminated for 2nd Am talk and gun mag.

[Ten*K]

My employer received a complaint that a co-worker at a contract facility was "disturbed" by my talking with another co-worker about firearms while reading a gun magazine that I was on my break.

Apparently, my employer has decided to terminate me under a blanket "unprofessional" clause in my contract, though there is no specific guideline of what "unprofessional" actually is. When I received the initial call, the supervisor said "you're on leave while we figure out what to do with you"

to which I replied "I haven't done anything wrong."

She replied, "Well, the person who complained was really scared."

to which I again replied, "I haven't done anything wrong, there was no violation of any company policy or law. I didn't do anything except talk about the 2nd Amendment while reading a magazine. I didn't do anything wrong."

"We'll let you know what we decide."

That was yesterday morning. Today there's a certified letter from the company that was not delivered because the postal worker can't be bothered to ring the doorbell.

I should say that I am in healthcare, and the entire staff and owner of the company I worked for is made up solely of females. They let people keep working who show up late... or not at all, who make mistakes or don't complete assignments on time or correctly, and now they are letting me go under a blanket clause for not violating any company policy, client rules or regulation, or any ethical or legal standard.

To which I say... FINE. I have an interview scheduled Monday for two other employers.

I can understand that there are many brainless, spineless sheeple who are terrified of even 2nd Am speech or pictures in a magazine... I can understand that an employer has the right to terminate employment in this state regardless of cause (or lack there of)... I can even understand my employer letting me know I'm let go via mail.

What I can't understand is why I don't feel angry about this. I have several awards from my (former) employer exclaiming how super and wonderful I am based on client reviews and co-worker reports. I received extra pay for consistently "going the extra mile". I dunno... I'm just not angry.

I'm sad. deeply so. This country and it's Constitution, to which I swore an oath to defend and uphold, is now a place (for me) that no longer cherishes either that very Constitution, or the people who cherish it.

It is more now a nation of fear and loathing. Of failure to see fact and reason. A triumph of hollowness of spirit, and completely Anti-American.

How is it that employers have the right to violate that same Constitution? I know the legaleese answer, but why do we continue to accept is as a People?

[WhiteShadow]

Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me. A whole heap full of it actually. Although, its a bummer that you lost a job that you apparently were doing very well at, i think in the end, i'm sure you'd agree, its better off not working for a company where the people in charge are such close-minded sheeple (and some of the co-workers too apparently). I say fuck em, and i wish you the best of luck finding another job, and asap.

It is more now a nation of fear and loathing. Of failure to see fact and reason.

I agree with this comment. I dont know whats going on now in this country, nor do i know where the hell this country is headed, but one thing i do know is... my guns will be at my side no matter what happens.

[ungawa]

The country voted for it, and CHANGE is here. The most oppressive people in our society, including the Press, are growing huge balls. It's going to get much worse.

I wish you worked in my industry so I could hire you. I don't shuffle paper around and let nitwits, corps, orgs, and health insurance companies screw my employees around. I defend my employees and protect their privacy, even from me.

[reverserboy]

WOW....my employer is not even that bad & I work in NJ.

Well for all the union bashing I've seen.....I'm glad that I can't be fired for any reason or no reason.....or in the case of the OP some BS nonreason.

[Halftrack]

It's their loss. I work in health care, too, and we talk about 2A and guns all the time. No one here seems to give it a second thought.

Fear and loathing is right. They fear the wrong thing, IMO. Talk of freedom is to be revered, not feared.

[mak47]

I'll be shocked if they actually state that as the official reason for letting you go. While yes, an employer can terminate an employee for any reason, they cannot simply make things up as they go, and that sounds like what happened here. They also cannot violate someone's civil rights (i.e. cannot fire them because they are hispanic, or because they find out they have a different political ideology). Civil rights are dictated by the Constitution, freedom of speech is one of them. Your employer can only restrict certain aspects of behavior while you are "on the clock". On your time, they are not entitled to so much power.

Typically, blanket "professionalism" clauses are intended to ensure a specific type of behavior in front of the general public, customers, clients, or patients. They are intended to maintain a specific image set forth by a company that they feel strengthens their reputation or brand.

Employee break areas are generally places that are off limits to the general public, or the clientele. Other employees may be present, but those areas are set apart for a reason, and it is because when you are off the clock and on a break that time belongs to you. On your time, you can do and say what you want within normal "common sense" guidelines.

Engaging in a private conversation about politics, hobbies, or other personal interests is exactly what break time is for, and that is exactly what you were doing.

If you were engaging in a private conversation, and were not speaking boisterously, or behaving threateningly, or trying to "preach" to other employees who were not involved, then you would have a legitimate claim to a violation of your civil rights as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America.

See a lawyer. Make the bastards pay up.

[Ten*K]

unfortunately, it's part of the contract (I am basically a sub-contractor) that they can let me go at any time with or without any reason. i signed it when I started there. this was explained by another co-worker as the "catch-all" that allows their opinion to be the final word. it's not a big corporation, and like I said, I've already got 2 interviews scheduled for this Monday.

hell. the closer of the two is within walking distance of my home. I don't need a legal battle, just a paycheck. I don't want to have my name thrown around because there's already enough bias against males in my line of health care already.

I've already decided to keep at what I'm doing until I have enough bills paid off that I can afford to go back to school. Stay in healthcare, but something far more technical and hopefully better paying.

[GunLawyer001]

unfortunately, it's part of the contract (I am basically a sub-contractor) that they can let me go at any time with or without any reason. i signed it when I started there. this was explained by another co-worker as the "catch-all" that allows their opinion to be the final word. it's not a big corporation, and like I said, I've already got 2 interviews scheduled for this Monday.
. . .

Suing is not always the best option for any potential plaintiff, even where there's a possible cause of action.

Let's look at a hypothetical male being fired from a mostly female workforce, where the stated reason is "talking about guns". That's certainly not "cause", it's not illegal. But talking about guns isn't protected, either. You can seldom sue over being fired for owning guns, even just owning them at home. But being male IS protected. No contract clause can allow them to fire for a bad reason. They may be able to fire for any non-discriminatory reason, or no reason at all (there's seldom really "no reason", they'd have to argue that they rolled dice each day to make management decisions), but they can't fire someone for his or her gender.

If the fired employee were the only male in a workforce of females, for example, and he was fired for a typical male activity like discussing guns or football or car repairs, then they really fired him for being male. This is little different than firing the only woman in a male-dominated workplace for talking about "The View" or Oprah or her children.

Broadly, this sort of termination could be pursued regardless of whether any contract contains a clause like "we can do whatever we want to you."

On a related note, breach of any contract negates most of the protections the breaching party put into the contract, particularly where a merchant ships non-conforming goods and relies on restocking fees or "as-is/no returns" clauses. If he promises to ship 100 pounds of brass, "as-is", and ships you 50 pounds, you can still take him to court over the discrepancy.

[Ten*K]

lotta night owls...

GunLawyer, I don't feel it was an issue of me being male, but I feel it certainly is an issue of understanding that a 95% majority female workplace is more likely to be prone to fainting spells at the mere mention of anything gun related. I don't really feel it was discriminatory because of my gender. the contention is that I evidently "terrorized" someone without doing anything other than discussing firearms and not being in the possession of any firearms or any other weapons... nor did I make any reference towards using any type of weapon (firearm or otherwise) for any unlawful or specific purpose.

specifically, the conversation that I believe was overheard regarded the Brady Campaign's stance on the FN 5.7, in which they state that this pistol, which I mentioned I own, is apparently made for "killing cops". The magazine was displaying the new FNP lines of pistols.

I don't feel responsible in any way what-so-ever for someone's irrational fears, but at the same time I was never given the opportunity to explain my side other than the 2 minute phone conversation.

But I'm going over course catalogs, and the Radiology Tech job is something that I only need 40 credits for... and I meet (and exceed) all the prerequisite criteria for admission.

It's also got an average salary that's about 25% more than what I make now, and is far more open ended as far as career advancement.

[jcabin]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I think it's unjust and discriminatory termination. You weren't talking about something that could have even been construed as conspiracy to commit a crime therefore I don't know where the terrorizing speach came from.

When one of the managers at my previous job found out that I was carrying at work he had a meeting in my honor on a day I was not schedualed to work. Apparently asking my co-workers if they felt he should take some type of action because I'm "not supposed to carry at work". Which is funny because when I applied for my LTCF I had a lengthy conversation with the REAL manager(general manager) about carrying and she fully supported it. The general consensus was that it's not a problem, and infact they were glad someone was carrying. Too bad the job sucked :/