Across Pa., cities at odds with NRA

[larrymeyer]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/ho..._with_NRA.html

Posted on Sun, Jun. 14, 2009


Across Pa., cities at odds with NRA
By Amy Worden

Inquirer Harrisburg Bureau

Nine months ago, a group of Pennsylvania mayors gathered in Reading to announce a new strategy in the war against gun violence: They urged municipalities to enact their own gun-control ordinances.

Frustrated by the General Assembly's failure to enact what they described as "commonsense gun laws," the mayors pledged to follow Philadelphia and push for local laws requiring owners to report lost or stolen guns.

On Tuesday, Lancaster became the eighth municipality to pass such an ordinance, joining Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Allentown, Reading, Easton, Pottsville, and Wilkinsburg.

"It was time to make a statement," Lancaster Mayor Rick Gray said after the council's unanimous decision.

The coalition's goal puts the municipalities at odds with the powerful National Rifle Association, which has followed through on its vow to sue Pennsylvania cities that approve what it called illegal gun laws.

Gray and Reading Mayor Thomas McMahon, a state leader of the national Mayors Against Illegal Guns, said they were tired of going to funerals of children caught in the crossfire of gang wars or drugs deals gone bad.

"The mayors said, 'Enough is enough,' " said McMahon, who asked other mayors to sign a pledge to support legislation to combat illegal gun sales. So far, 83 have signed.

The tipping point for Gray was last month during a viewing for a 9-year-old Lancaster girl slain in a drive-by shooting in York, Pa.

"We have to do something about gun violence," he said. "Obviously, the General Assembly cowers at even taking minor steps."

The law, which can vary by community, aims to curb illegal gun sales, or so-called straw purchases, by not allowing legal buyers who sell guns to felons to claim that their guns were lost or stolen when the firearms turn up at crime scenes.

The mayors launched their city-to-city campaign after a year of advocacy in Harrisburg failed to sway the legislature on the reporting proposal, which made it to a floor vote in the House. Lawmakers rejected the measure by 53 votes; supporters say they hope to introduce a similar bill in the fall.

The NRA has argued that local ordinances would threaten innocent gun owners who may not be aware their weapons are missing and who would face penalties for not reporting the losses.

"I don't know of any law that criminalizes victims of crime," said John Hohenwarter, the NRA's lobbyist in Pennsylvania. "These ordinances do that."

Supporters of the ordinance counter that it would allow a reasonable reporting time after owners discovered guns were missing.

Chad Ramsey, senior associate director of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, based in Washington, said he believed the Pennsylvania mayors' efforts were the first in the country.

"We've never seen anything quite like this," he said. "Mayors see it as a personal affront from the NRA and the gun lobby that they are not allowed to set their own laws that deal with guns at the local level."

Ramsey said his organization offered to defend any municipality free of charge against an NRA lawsuit.

The first to accept the offer was Pittsburgh, which passed its ordinance in December. The NRA sued, arguing that the state firearms code prohibits the city from passing gun laws.

"The state law clearly preempts regulation of firearms and ammunition," Hohenwarter said. "Just because they lose the debate in Harrisburg doesn't mean they have the right to pass ordinances."

The NRA also is battling Philadelphia over several gun laws, including a reporting requirement, enacted in the last two years.

The Philadelphia Court of Common Pleas ruled in the city's favor in the fall on the reporting requirement for lost and stolen guns, saying the NRA and its plaintiffs lacked standing because they were not affected or likely to be affected by the ordinance. That case has been appealed to Commonwealth Court.

The city argued that requiring someone to report a missing gun does not infringe on the right to own one.

"The state preemption only prohibits laws which limit ownership, possession, and transportation and purchase. This ordinance doesn't limit the right to own, possess, or purchase a firearm in any way," said Richard Feder, the city's chief deputy for appeals and legislation.

A Philadelphia Police Department spokeswoman said that residents were reporting their stolen guns as required and that no one had yet been arrested for false reporting.

David Kairys, a professor of constitutional law at Temple University, said cases challenging local gun ordinances could have far-reaching implications for home rule in Philadelphia and elsewhere.

He said the state Supreme Court had "gutted home rule" in Philadelphia with decisions such as the 1996 overturning of a ban on assault weapons. But Kairys said communities recognized that crime and safety were local issues and they wanted to make their own decisions about how to protect residents.

"They're doing their duty, saying in order to have law and order we have to get guns off the street and restore local authority," Kairys said.

That was what Jason Cohn was thinking when he voted yes this month to the lost-and-stolen ordinance in Wilkinsburg, population 19,000, just outside Pittsburgh.

Cohn, a 12-year resident of the borough, said his community was horrified last year when 12-year-old Kholen Germany was caught in a gun battle on a downtown street.

"For our size, we have a higher violent-crime rate than we should," Cohn said. "We viewed this as a simple way to close a big loophole that criminals use."

Local leaders concede it will be difficult to prosecute cases involving fraudulent reporting because of jurisdictional boundaries, but they feel their action sends a strong message to potential offenders and to lawmakers in Harrisburg.

"For the cities that are passing these ordinances, this is a cry for help to the state legislature to please begin to address these issues," Gray said. "Talk to the little girl's mother who was killed in York: What good is prosecution? We should try to keep the wrong people from possessing guns in the first place."

[ReconLdr]

Ok, is it me, I don't understand how this bill/law do anything to stop gun violence?

If someone broke into my house/car and stole my guns, how will me reporting it stolen get the guns away from the criminals? I guess I could keep a note inside each gun case informing the crook of my intentions to report the gun missing. This I think would compel him/her to turn themselves in I guess.

FWIW: I would report a lost/stolen gun right away, hoping the insurance company would give me a check ASAP.

In the case of straw purchasers, they already broke the law by making the purchase. Exactly how would this do anything to stop or even reduce straw purchasing? Even if they reported the gun missing, the guns would still be out on the street.

Why don't they make tougher punishment for people who steal more severe, maybe actually punish a straw purchaser and make them spend all of the time in prison instead of the "revolving door" approach to rehab.

These asshats want "Common Sense Gun Laws" where is the common sense in this?

[son of the revolution]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/ho..._with_NRA.html

Posted on Sun, Jun. 14, 2009


Across Pa., cities at odds with NRA
By Amy Worden

Inquirer Harrisburg Bureau

Nine months ago, a group of Pennsylvania mayors gathered in Reading to announce a new strategy in the war against gun violence: They urged municipalities to enact their own gun-control ordinances.

Frustrated by the General Assembly's failure to enact what they described as "commonsense gun laws," the mayors pledged to follow Philadelphia and push for local laws requiring owners to report lost or stolen guns.

On Tuesday, Lancaster became the eighth municipality to pass such an ordinance, joining Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Allentown, Reading, Easton, Pottsville, and Wilkinsburg.

"It was time to make a statement," Lancaster Mayor Rick Gray said after the council's unanimous decision.

The coalition's goal puts the municipalities at odds with the powerful National Rifle Association, which has followed through on its vow to sue Pennsylvania cities that approve what it called illegal gun laws.

Gray and Reading Mayor Thomas McMahon, a state leader of the national Mayors Against Illegal Guns, said they were tired of going to funerals of children caught in the crossfire of gang wars or drugs deals gone bad.

"The mayors said, 'Enough is enough,' " said McMahon, who asked other mayors to sign a pledge to support legislation to combat illegal gun sales. So far, 83 have signed.

The tipping point for Gray was last month during a viewing for a 9-year-old Lancaster girl slain in a drive-by shooting in York, Pa.

"We have to do something about gun violence," he said. "Obviously, the General Assembly cowers at even taking minor steps."

The law, which can vary by community, aims to curb illegal gun sales, or so-called straw purchases, by not allowing legal buyers who sell guns to felons to claim that their guns were lost or stolen when the firearms turn up at crime scenes.

The mayors launched their city-to-city campaign after a year of advocacy in Harrisburg failed to sway the legislature on the reporting proposal, which made it to a floor vote in the House. Lawmakers rejected the measure by 53 votes; supporters say they hope to introduce a similar bill in the fall.

The NRA has argued that local ordinances would threaten innocent gun owners who may not be aware their weapons are missing and who would face penalties for not reporting the losses.

"I don't know of any law that criminalizes victims of crime," said John Hohenwarter, the NRA's lobbyist in Pennsylvania. "These ordinances do that."

Supporters of the ordinance counter that it would allow a reasonable reporting time after owners discovered guns were missing.

Chad Ramsey, senior associate director of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, based in Washington, said he believed the Pennsylvania mayors' efforts were the first in the country.

"We've never seen anything quite like this," he said. "Mayors see it as a personal affront from the NRA and the gun lobby that they are not allowed to set their own laws that deal with guns at the local level."

Ramsey said his organization offered to defend any municipality free of charge against an NRA lawsuit.

The first to accept the offer was Pittsburgh, which passed its ordinance in December. The NRA sued, arguing that the state firearms code prohibits the city from passing gun laws.

"The state law clearly preempts regulation of firearms and ammunition," Hohenwarter said. "Just because they lose the debate in Harrisburg doesn't mean they have the right to pass ordinances."

The NRA also is battling Philadelphia over several gun laws, including a reporting requirement, enacted in the last two years.

The Philadelphia Court of Common Pleas ruled in the city's favor in the fall on the reporting requirement for lost and stolen guns, saying the NRA and its plaintiffs lacked standing because they were not affected or likely to be affected by the ordinance. That case has been appealed to Commonwealth Court.

The city argued that requiring someone to report a missing gun does not infringe on the right to own one.

"The state preemption only prohibits laws which limit ownership, possession, and transportation and purchase. This ordinance doesn't limit the right to own, possess, or purchase a firearm in any way," said Richard Feder, the city's chief deputy for appeals and legislation.

A Philadelphia Police Department spokeswoman said that residents were reporting their stolen guns as required and that no one had yet been arrested for false reporting.

David Kairys, a professor of constitutional law at Temple University, said cases challenging local gun ordinances could have far-reaching implications for home rule in Philadelphia and elsewhere.

He said the state Supreme Court had "gutted home rule" in Philadelphia with decisions such as the 1996 overturning of a ban on assault weapons. But Kairys said communities recognized that crime and safety were local issues and they wanted to make their own decisions about how to protect residents.

"They're doing their duty, saying in order to have law and order we have to get guns off the street and restore local authority," Kairys said.

That was what Jason Cohn was thinking when he voted yes this month to the lost-and-stolen ordinance in Wilkinsburg, population 19,000, just outside Pittsburgh.

Cohn, a 12-year resident of the borough, said his community was horrified last year when 12-year-old Kholen Germany was caught in a gun battle on a downtown street.

"For our size, we have a higher violent-crime rate than we should," Cohn said. "We viewed this as a simple way to close a big loophole that criminals use."

Local leaders concede it will be difficult to prosecute cases involving fraudulent reporting because of jurisdictional boundaries, but they feel their action sends a strong message to potential offenders and to lawmakers in Harrisburg.

"For the cities that are passing these ordinances, this is a cry for help to the state legislature to please begin to address these issues," Gray said. "Talk to the little girl's mother who was killed in York: What good is prosecution? We should try to keep the wrong people from possessing guns in the first place."

Beat me to it !! Saw this on the front page last night while grocery shopping and was gonna write up a post about it . I also plan on contacting the reporter on Mon and seeing if I can enlighten her .

Bolded by me

Not that Im surprised , coming from a Philly Court , but that decision is full of BS . The NRA and its plaintiffs absolutely have standing ! Because , contrary to popular beleif , the NRA isnt some omnipotent faceless entity . Its the Nations oldest civil rights group that represents millions of ordinary Americans , including quite a few from Philly .

If the NRA has " no standing " to file on behalf of its members , then it needs to be pointed out that the Brady Bunch equally has " no standing " to coerce and force their views on the vast majority of the citizenry that doesnt agree with their mindset !

And thats one of several points of contention I plan on asking the reporter about .

Maybe some of our Philly based members , that are NRA members also , should join together and file a suit against the City .

Either the Brady Bunch has to be forced to recuse themselves because they have " no standing " . Or the Court will have to admit its flawed logic and allow the NRA to represent the Pro 2A side . Either way , its a win for us .

[GunLawyer001]

For anyone who fails to see how mandatory reporting of lost or stolen guns would reduce gun violence....that's because it wouldn't.

It's already illegal to sell handguns to anyone without a paper trail, with minor exceptions for some immediate family members. You can legally lend one to someone with an LTCF. People with LTCF's are not the ones gunning down 12 year olds. So EXISTING LAW is being violated when anyone hands a gun to a felon, and the penalties are already quite stiff.

Adding another crime, a summary offense that's like a jaywalking ticket, will have ZERO effect on criminals, it will only punish the innocent. When 16 year old Tyrhoniuz steals his grandpa's pistol and sell it for crack, it will be grandpa who gets hit with that summary offense.

If grandpa reports it stolen, the Philly PD will reward him by revoking his LTCF, because his "carelessness" in allowing himself to be a crime victim will show bad character.

There are lots of things that cities could do to reduce crime, and most of them are unconstitutional, overly broad, and just plain evil. They could execute all drug addicts. Bury the homeless in mass graves. Forbid black people from living within city limits. Force any person who loses his job to leave the city within 48 hours. Street executions of anyone caught in the act of any crime. Death penalty for gun possession. Forced sterilization of parents if their kid misses school. Lots of options, some would be effective, others would punish 100% of a group for the misdeeds of 1%.

Blaming all gun owners for crime is like blaming all blacks for crime. We wouldn't tolerate a Philly ordinance that puts family members in jail for not reporting the crimes of their black sons and brothers, but somehow it's OK to impose any burden on law-abiding gun owners just because some people with guns commit crimes. "Some criminals have guns, so all gun owners are bad" makes exactly as much sense as "some criminals are black, so all blacks are criminals." We shouldn't tolerate either fiction.

On a different note, the NRA as an entity doesn't have standing to challenge most laws, because the NRA is not being prosecuted, and doesn't face any individualized risk of prosecution. Standing requires that you, the individual plaintiff, are being prosecuted for the challenged crime, or you applied for something and were turned down based on the law. I believe most courts routinely dismiss cases filed by plaintiffs who "would like to bugger sheep but are afraid to do so because of the anti-sex-with-animals statute"; they have to catch you in flagrante delecto, prosecute you, and then you've got standing.

In the DC "Heller" case, most of the plaintiffs were dismissed for lack of standing, even though all of them wanted to keep guns and all of them were denied that right because of the statute. In the Philly case, you wouldn't have standing just because you owned a gun that might be stolen, you might neglect to report it, and then you might be prosecuted.

[Vig]

I didn't RTFA, but the title really bothers me.

These Cities and municipalities are NOT "at odds" with the NRA. They are "at odds" with State Law. If it wasn't the NRA bringing this to the courts it would be a private citizen.

[Gtbullet]

I here all these anti-gunners say we have to stop gun violence what the hell is that. How about putting people in jail that use guns in crimes and keeping them in jail instead of make deals with them. This is such bullshit, if the DA would do her fucking job by locking these people up they wouldn’t be running around the streets in Philly. Perfect example, the two guy’s then ran down three children, Holy mother of god, these guy’s had a laundry list of gun offences against them before ever committing this crime, why doesn’t the media ask, Why were these guys on the streets to being with? Hello is anyone home! Why do I constantly hear it’s the guns fault? If these Mayors along with local city governments don’t start blaming people for these crimes this will never stop. Why isn’t anyone asking the right questions, WTF is going on? Taking the guns out of the hands of Law abiding citizens isn’t going to make anyone safer, what it’s going to do is make more folks unsafe. The only people with guns are going to be criminals. I love how we hear the police will protect you, the last time I checked the Police can’t do a god damn thing until a crime has been committed. The police can only be reactive not proactive, they can’t lock someone up if their thinking of committing a crime but when your laying on the floor next to a puddle of blood with chalk lines around you, then yes the police can now act in protecting your life, cut me a break. If the DA’s around this country would shut the fuck up and stop crying about guns and stop making deals with criminals and use the laws at their disposal to lock up criminals for a long time then maybe we wouldn’t have these guys running around maiming and killing people in every major city in this country. Until local city Governments start blaming people for crimes instead of guns this problem is going to continue to destroy every major city in this country.

[RoyJackson]

The problem with the law is that it violates the state pre-emption laws. And, if they can do it once with the "report stolen handguns" laws, these lefties will try other laws that will be more of an infringement of our rights.
The NRA cannot address all of these violations...too costly.
Darryl Metcalf (State Rep from western PA) has introduced a bill that would prohibit cities from enacting such laws and require all legal fees paid for by any city being challenged (if the city loses the case). That bill languished in committee, I believe.
I'd like to see that bill revised to put the burden directly on the individuals violating state law (rather then the taxpayer).
The state pre-emption laws came about to eliminate a mis mash of local laws.

A person suing Lancaster would have to come from Lancaster City (maybe a county resident would suffice) to have standing to sue. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that would be a requirement.

[allglock]

I cannot stand that left wing liberal newspaper... Every stinkin week they have an anti-gun article, and every week I e-mail the editor, and try to educate him/her about guns.
Close minded people they are..........

[Philbert]

Note how it is cities vs "The NRA", whereas if pro-gun laws were being passed it would be "NRA against concerned, law-abiding citizens" and Ceasefire would be quoted as a "grassroots" voice of the people.

[tes151]

It's my property, and if it's stolen I'll report it if I feel like it. And there isn't a law on the books anywhere in this state that says I have to. Having said that, who in their right mind ( other than a straw purchaser ) wouldn't report a stolen gun? Seems redundant to me.