Is it a straw purchase........

[internet troll]

If you buy a gun with the intent of selling it to another non prohibited person?

I was reading this article and thought that it brought up an interesting point. A person bought a gun in one state with a police discount and then transferred it to his uncle. Sounds like that was the plan all along. He was convicted of a straw purchase.

On the surface it sounds like a straw purchase to me, but is it really? I found this definition of a straw purchase that says if you buy a gun with the intent to sell it to a prohibited person.
http://smartgunlaws.org/straw-purchases-policy-summary/

In this case the man sold it to a relative who was not a prohibited person. Since he was not a prohibited person is it really a straw purchase?



http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-...ing-conviction

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court will decide whether a Virginia man should have been convicted of being a "straw purchaser" after buying a gun in-state and selling it to his uncle in Pennsylvania.
The high court on Tuesday agreed to hear an appeal from Bruce James Abramski, Jr., a former police officer. Abramski bought a Glock 19 handgun in Collinsville, Va., in 2009 and transferred it to his uncle in Easton, Pa.
Federal official say Abramski had assured the Virginia dealer he was the "actual buyer" of the weapon when he already had discussed with his uncle how he would buy the Pennsylvania man a weapon with his police discount.
STORY: Chevron Rolls Out the Big Gun: Ted Olson
Abramski says since both he and his uncle were legally allowed to own guns, the law shouldn't have applied to him.

[tl_3237]

IMO. if you purchase a firearm with the prior intent of selling (not gifting) it to another then you are acting as a buyer's agent. If an FFL is involved then there is the issue of hiding a material fact when specifying that you are the 'actual buyer'; ditto if there are state forms involved.

Technically there is no such crime as 'straw purchase'; there is the crime of hiding a material fact on the 4473 and/or state forms.

If the true recipient/buyer is prohibited then there are other laws involved; if not prohibited then there may be some cause for leniency but a violation would occur nonetheless.

Interesting the 5th circuit used a different (questionable) logic in United States v. Polk, 118 F.3d 286 (5th Cir. 1997) but the 4th did not agree. I believe there was also a recent 11th Circuit ruling in line with the 4th and eschewing the 5th's ruling.

[mingomom]

Then there's the whole idea of fraud in using a discount intended for police to buy a firearm for someone who doesn't meet the criteria for a discount.

[streaker69]

Then there's the whole idea of fraud in using a discount intended for police to buy a firearm for someone who doesn't meet the criteria for a discount.

Is that really fraud in the legal sense, or is it just against some morals? I ask because I bet thousands do that every day across the country. An employee gets a discount at their work, and they buy things for their friends or family on that discount.

As far as I know, there isn't a law that addresses that, nor do I think there should be.

[prospero1919]

If there was a nics done for the uncle (the article says the pistol was transferred not given or privately sold) - I can't see how it could be considered a straw purchase(straw purchases bypass nics altogether). Most of us buy firearms knowing that we could sell/trade them on a whim or need (or if the wife finds out) - the FFL form does not say you need to hold onto said pistol for X days before reselling/transferring it legally. Hell some members here sell and trade more firearms than small brick and mortar stores .

[streaker69]

If there was a nics done for the uncle (the article says the pistol was transferred not given or privately sold) - I can't see how it could be considered a straw purchase(straw purchases bypass nics altogether). Most of us buy firearms knowing that we could sell/trade them on a whim or need (or if the wife finds out) - the FFL form does not say you need to hold onto said pistol for X days before reselling/transferring it legally.

According to the story, the original buyer, knew he was buying it for his uncle and intended to give it to him. Per form 4473.

Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are
acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(
s)
to you

Since he had already determined that he wasn't buying it for himself, he lied when he answered that question.

[mr_jumper]

Appears to me like since he was a LEO, he used a LEO discount to purchase w/ intent purpose of saving his uncle some $$.

In any other purchase other than firearm this should be ok, but I can see how it can get complicated with firearm purchase.

*edit* I was going to mention the form and it's accuracy, but it looks like someone beat me to it. ^^

[Sgt.K]

According to the story, the original buyer, knew he was buying it for his uncle and intended to give it to him. Per form 4473.

Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are
acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you

Since he had already determined that he wasn't buying it for himself, he lied when he answered that question.

It *could* be said that he was the actual buyer. He bought it. He paid for it. He had the NICS check done. Then, he made a legal sale to his uncle, who bought it, paid for it, and had a PICS check done.

IANAL, but I think the intent of the (straw purchase) law should prevail here.

My 2¢

[Armor Snail]

Buying with intent to legally gift is fine. You do answer yes to 11a.
Here is the instructions on a 4473.

[prospero1919]

Since he had already determined that he wasn't buying it for himself, he lied when he answered that question.[/QUOTE]

What if you buy a pistol for investment only and plan on selling it for a profit or will it to a family member? Technically you are buying it to sell it or give it to someone correct? The only difference in the end answer in the question on the form is when it leaves your person was it done legally or not.