car carry details

[mosseater]

I know from being here several years about the need for LTCF for vehicle (conveyance?) carry. I have read that long guns, which do not fall under the same provision, can never be loaded in a vehicle, and that the long gun and ammo must be in separte containers, not necessarily locked.

I'm specifically looking for any verbage as to how methods of carry a "firearm" (handgun) in a vehicle if one does not yet possess a lawfully issued LTCF from PA, and is claiming exemption under one of the stated provisions, eg, going to or from the range.

Does the law state the firearm and ammo need to be in separate containers? Locked containers? Separate compartments? Out of "immediate reach" of the occupants? etc. I can't seem to find specifics. Asking for another. Thanks all!

[knight0334]

I know from being here several years about the need for LTCF for vehicle (conveyance?) carry. I have read that long guns, which do not fall under the same provision, can never be loaded in a vehicle, and that the long gun and ammo must be in separte containers, not necessarily locked.

I'm specifically looking for any verbage as to how methods of carry a "firearm" (handgun) in a vehicle if one does not yet possess a lawfully issued LTCF from PA, and is claiming exemption under one of the stated provisions, eg, going to or from the range.

Does the law state the firearm and ammo need to be in separate containers? Locked containers? Separate compartments? Out of "immediate reach" of the occupants? etc. I can't seem to find specifics. Asking for another. Thanks all!

You are confusing federal transporting laws(FOPA) with PA laws. FOPA only applies for interstate transporting.

Ammunition does NOT need to be in a separate container in PA. Only LOADED MAGAZINES need to be in a separate container.

As for transporting handguns and long guns to/from the range:

To/from a range - the gun must be unloaded. Any loaded detachable magazines must be in a separate container.

Going to/from a gunsmith, moving between homes, or going to/from a place of instruction requires the guns to be unloaded and securely wrapped(a case of some sort). Any loaded detachable magazines must be in a separate container.

Loose or boxed ammo does not need to be in a separate container. You can legally duct tape cartridges to the side of the gun if you want to, or to your forehead. ....just not ammo in the chamber(s), or in a fixed magazine, or if the guns use detachable magazines - any loaded detachable magazines that is suitable for the guns that are present must be in a separate container.

The containers need not be locked. Their is no definition for "secure wrapper" for the firearms, but the definition for "loaded" eludes to some types of fixtures for loaded magazines.

18 Pa.C.S.A. § 6102
§ 6102. Definitions

“Firearm.” Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

“Loaded.” A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or, in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm. If the magazine is inserted into a pouch, holder, holster or other protective device that provides for a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition, then the pouch, holder, holster or other protective device shall be deemed to be a separate compartment.

18 Pa.C.S.A. § 6106
§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license

(a) Offense defined.--
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
(2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a1 valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.

(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

(4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.

(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.

(e) Definitions.--
(1) For purposes of subsection (b)(3), (4), (5), (7) and (8), the term “firearm” shall include any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of the weapon.
(2) As used in this section, the phrase “place of instruction” shall include any hunting club, rifle club, rifle range, pistol range, shooting range, the premises of a licensed firearms dealer or a lawful gun show or meet.

18 Pa.C.S.A. § 6106.1
§ 6106.1. Carrying loaded weapons other than firearms

(a) General rule.-- Except as provided in Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall carry a loaded pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, other than a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), in any vehicle. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons excepted from the requirement of a license to carry firearms under section 6106(b)(1), (2), (5) or (6) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) nor shall the provisions of this section be construed to permit persons to carry firearms in a vehicle where such conduct is prohibited by section 6106.
(b) Penalty.--A person who violates the provisions of this section commits a summary offense.

[mosseater]

Thank you, sir! That helps a lot.

Is there any criteria as to what is considered "a range"? Must it be a an established place to shoot, or can it be in a private woodlot with a suitable backstop, for example?

[QuackXP]

Do you have something against getting a LTCF? Compared to most states it is a very easy an inexpensive process.

$20 and a little bit of your time buy you allot of protection against the strict transportation laws even if you do not plan on carrying.

[mosseater]

Do you have something against getting a LTCF? Compared to most states it is a very easy an inexpensive process.

$20 and a little bit of your time buy you allot of protection against the strict transportation laws even if you do not plan on carrying.

As I stated, asking for another. I've had my LTCF for over thirty years, hence the questions about not having it.

[harp28]

If I read this correctly, everyone that ever bought a gun in PA. and drove it home without a LTCF broke the law. That can't be right, can it?

Any FFL's deliver?

[streaker69]

If I read this correctly, everyone that ever bought a gun in PA. and drove it home without a LTCF broke the law. That can't be right, can it?

Any FFL's deliver?

There are exceptions listed in the UFA, one of them is transporting to and from the gun shop.

[mosseater]

If I read this correctly, everyone that ever bought a gun in PA. and drove it home without a LTCF broke the law. That can't be right, can it?

Any FFL's deliver?

Nope, right there in the exceptions in bold.

Any ideas on the question of what constiutes a range? This person has taken this pistol to a private woodlot to practice. Ok? yea or nay? I don't see any specifics on this.

Also,it sounds like, for example, the ubiquitous thigh rig with the front mag pouch attached (I know, I know... lets not go there please) is a legal way to carry the loaded mag in a "separate container" because it fully encases the ammunition in a separate compartment. Or am I reading that wrong?

[SevenMilePete]

If I read this correctly, everyone that ever bought a gun in PA. and drove it home without a LTCF broke the law. That can't be right, can it?

Any FFL's deliver?

No, that is one of the exceptions, to/from FFL or gunsmith for purchase/sale/repair.

[harp28]

Yeah, I missed that part but figured it had to be exempt. Sorry, thanks for the corrections.