U.S. Military Reconsiders Army's Use of M4 Rifles in Afghanistan

[Maquis]

Link

The U.S. military is re-evaluating the Army’s use of the M4 rifle in Afghanistan following concerns that the Taliban’s primitive AK-47’s are proving more effective.

[CHEMICAL]

Link

so why not supply them with gas piston 308's?

[Nullifidian]

IIRC the 5.56 is not suited to the short barrel on the M4. So that makes sense.

Now if you told me the M16A2 is proving ineffective I'd seriously question the validity of that unless the article talked about sand causing jams and such. AFAIK the standard M16A2 is still a DI system, so that wouldn't surprise me.

From what I read the engagement distances in A-stan are somewhat far. Anything past 250 yards or so and the AK47 is at a severe disadvantage. The AK74 less so, but the 7.62x39 round supposedly has less than stellar accuracy past 250 yards.


EDIT: Read the article. They are talking about engaging the enemy at 300-800 meters. The article was just silly. The AK47 is NOT effective at those ranges. The Taliban soldiers who are shooting at our troops from that distance are using PSLs, Drags, and even Mosins firing 7.62x54R not 7.62x39. The M4 certainly isn't either though. The full size M16 though should be effective up to 600 meters. In any case, the average soldier isn't going to hit anything at 800 meters anyway and probably not 300 meters. That's what sharpshooters are for. If engaging at such distances are common occurrence, it might make sense to create a designated marksman role. One that isn't as highly trained as a sniper but still has significant marksmanship training and carries a high power rifle. Perhaps a .308.

[YBNORMAL]

Yeah........ I don't know about this one, the M4 may be a little light on stopping power at the longer ranges, but to say that it is less accurate than the AK is just crazy talk.

[YBNORMAL]

EDIT: Read the article. They are talking about engaging the enemy at 300-800 meters. The article was just silly. The AK47 is NOT effective at those ranges. The Taliban soldiers who are shooting at our troops from that distance are using PSLs, Drags, and even Mosins firing 7.62x54R not 7.62x39. The M4 certainly isn't either though. The full size M16 though should be effective up to 600 meters. In any case, the average soldier isn't going to hit anything at 800 meters anyway and probably not 300 meters. That's what sharpshooters are for. If engaging at such distances are common occurrence, it might make sense to create a designated marksman role. One that isn't as highly trained as a sniper but still has significant marksmanship training and carries a high power rifle. Perhaps a .308.

Thought you said you read it......

From the article:

To counter these tactics, the U.S. military is designating nine soldiers in each infantry company to serve as sharpshooters, according to Maj. Thomas Ehrhart, who wrote the Army study. The sharpshooters are equipped with the new M110 sniper rifle, which fires a larger 7.62mm round and is accurate to at least 2,500 feet.

[Nullifidian]

Thought you said you read it......

From the article:

To counter these tactics, the U.S. military is designating nine soldiers in each infantry company to serve as sharpshooters, according to Maj. Thomas Ehrhart, who wrote the Army study. The sharpshooters are equipped with the new M110 sniper rifle, which fires a larger 7.62mm round and is accurate to at least 2,500 feet.

I skimmed it. I read the first part and skimmed over the rest.

The article is a very confused one written by someone who clearly didn't do any research.

Anyway, the M110 would be perfect for this role. It's essentially a suped up AR10 with some changes to make parts interchangeable with the AR15.


In any case, the M110 is not REPLACING the M4 as the article implied. They fill completely different roles. The M4 is still extremely effective in urban combat because of it's light weight and small form factor. I think this is more a case of fewer operations in urban combat and other situations which require close quarter fighting where the M4 excels. As such, more troops should be using a full sized M16 instead.

[YBNORMAL]

In any case, the M110 is not REPLACING the M4 as the article implied. They fill completely different roles. The M4 is still extremely effective in urban combat because of it's light weight and small form factor. I think this is more a case of fewer operations in urban combat and other situations which require close quarter fighting where the M4 excels. As such, more troops should be using a full sized M16 instead.

I didn't think the article implied the M110 was replacing the M4.

You posted:

If engaging at such distances are common occurrence, it might make sense to create a designated marksman role. One that isn't as highly trained as a sniper but still has significant marksmanship training and carries a high power rifle. Perhaps a .308.

So I quoted the article where it said that the military is doing the very thing you said they should do

From the article:

To counter these tactics, the U.S. military is designating nine soldiers in each infantry company to serve as sharpshooters, according to Maj. Thomas Ehrhart, who wrote the Army study. The sharpshooters are equipped with the new M110 sniper rifle, which fires a larger 7.62mm round and is accurate to at least 2,500 feet.

They are even using the caliber you wanted them to.

Anywho, moving on.......

[Neko456]

From what I gather the M4 is doing a smack down job over there. Most of the combat is urban inside 150 yards and that is were the M4 is proficient.

There are occqassional snipers that shoot at the soldiers at 400-800 yars out but they are usually taken out by rockets or 50 cal from Helicopters counters, or drones or counter snipers. The Taliban best tactics are hiding behind the citizens or drop their weapon, mixing back in the crowd and IUDs. Our soilders firing the M4 kill the enemy 10-1 or 10-0 better trained and better weapons. The M4 is faster and more accurate then then AK, the Ak's bullet may hit harder when it hits.

Accept for the causalities of war we are kicking their butts they are begging for Taliban support and no one is really wanting to get involved trying to stay low so that they don't get targted.

On another subject but similar I really liked the snipers responce to the Somalia Pirates hostage situation. That was precisonly executed excuse my pun.

[Andrew17019]

IUDs? Is there a big birth control problem in 'Ghanistan?

[Neko456]

IDU you know what I meant I made a typo so sue me.

Anyway the M4 is a good weapon for the task at hand in that war. The SPC rifle is superior to the M4 in 223 but you could see how expensive that would be to outfit the entire Army and Marines with this rifle especially when the M4 is doing such a good job. As history has bored out the M4 is more then a equal to the AK, despite more maintenance required to clean it, while in sandy environment.