Private Gun Range Under Fire for “Muslim-Free Zone”

[priell3]

What do you think about private clubs? Should they have the right, at their discretion, to exclude anyone from membership? Should fraternal orders such as the Masons be given the right to exclude women? We could list for days the clubs and groups that require membership and exclude people base on their own preset criterion. To ask the question is to answer it, because to be a club insinuates exclusion of some and acceptance of others. This is now being challenged.

The Washington Post reports:

After calls for an investigation from at least two advocacy groups, the Justice Department’s civil rights division will “monitor” an Arkansas gun range that declared itself a “Muslim-free zone” last fall.

At first sight, we might have mixed reactions. Part of us, as Americans, hates the thought that anyone would be excluded because of their religion. It is hard to argue for freedom of religion on one side and not the other. Then, there is the side that is acutely aware of the violence and hate perpetrated by the followers of Islam. This is not the first time that this has been reported.

Read more at http://sonsoflibertymedia.com/2015/0...lim-free-zone/

[bogey1]

Good question. I always though private means private. You can smoke at private clubs. There's a private club down the street from me thats open til 3-4am. (bar)

[theshadow]

At first sight, we might have mixed reactions. Part of us, as Americans, hates the thought that anyone would be excluded because of their religion. It is hard to argue for freedom of religion on one side and not the other. Then, there is the side that is acutely aware of the violence and hate perpetrated by the followers of Islam. This is not the first time that this has been reported.

You, like many others, including government, are overlooking another part of the First Amendment. One that organizations like the Boy Scouts could have used in their own defense. Freedom of Association. Government can not make laws (according to the 1A) concerning Who you may or may not associate with, much less mandate it.

The down side, since there is so little providence, and rulings on this specific portion of the 1A, not many people would attempt to use it.

For the record yes, I know it's not specifically mentioned as freedom of association in the 1A, but this article discusses how it is part of the 1A http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...ssociation.htm

[thebearpack]

Personally I think any private business, organization or individual should be allowed to discriminate in any way it wants. As long as there is no connection to the government in any way - no financial support, sponsorship, authorization or other "official" connection, go nuts and let the free market sort it out. For example, if there is a store that doesn't want to allow middle-aged white guys in, it's probably not a place I'd want to spend my money anyway so why would I get upset? I'll shop elsewhere and hopefully others (regardless of their skin color) will refuse to support such an idiotic place and it will fail.

If you extrapolate that to almost any situation, it works: why would a black person - or any sane person really - want to spend money at a place owned by an overt racist who openly dislikes blacks? Or more to the point of this thread, why would a Muslim want to join this shooting club run by people who hate them as a group versus judging each individual?

[Gunowner99]

Good question. I always though private means private. You can smoke at private clubs. There's a private club down the street from me thats open til 3-4am. (bar)

That's what I thought.

[Justin///M]

Private is private.

Justin

[stainless]

Why should muslims shoot for free when everyone else must pay???

[ForeverPA]

For example, if there is a store that doesn't want to allow middle-aged white guys in, it's probably not a place I'd want to spend my money anyway so why would I get upset?

A gun range is not a “store”. There are dozens of grocery stores I can by my food and hundreds of restaurants to eat at but how many gun clubs are out there? How do you like to drive 30 miles to the next closest range because the one you are going to now decides they don’t want middle-aged white guys? Besides, how are they going out find out someone’s religion short of an Inquisition?

[thebearpack]

A gun range is not a “store”. There are dozens of grocery stores I can by my food and hundreds of restaurants to eat at but how many gun clubs are out there? How do you like to drive 30 miles to the next closest range because the one you are going to now decides they don’t want middle-aged white guys? Besides, how are they going out find out someone’s religion short of an Inquisition?

Even more to my point because it's not a store. It's not opened for the purpose of providing goods or services to the public so let them service whoever they want. In my world it wouldn't matter what its purpose was though; if it didn't want me as a customer, I'll go elsewhere. Just because one private club or store is more convenient to me than another, it doesn't mean that club's/store's owners have to grant me special rights (again, in my world).

As for banning based on religion, of course they wouldn't know. But I think the owners are really saying they don't want guys who look a certain way or have certain names in their club. Again, knowing that, would it be a club you really want to belong to? That's the entire point I'm trying to make: I'm not Muslim yet I wouldn't pay money to be a part of a club run by idiots who would ban individuals based on their perception of said individuals. Let the free market sort them out.

[libra8]

Personally I think any private business, organization or individual should be allowed to discriminate in any way it wants. As long as there is no connection to the government in any way - no financial support, sponsorship, authorization or other "official" connection, go nuts and let the free market sort it out. For example, if there is a store that doesn't want to allow middle-aged white guys in, it's probably not a place I'd want to spend my money anyway so why would I get upset? I'll shop elsewhere and hopefully others (regardless of their skin color) will refuse to support such an idiotic place and it will fail.

If you extrapolate that to almost any situation, it works: why would a black person - or any sane person really - want to spend money at a place owned by an overt racist who openly dislikes blacks? Or more to the point of this thread, why would a Muslim want to join this shooting club run by people who hate them as a group versus judging each individual?

This. Another example: The gay couple who sued the cake store because they wouldn't sell them a cake. Why would they want something that they are going to eat be made by someone who doesn't like their lifestyle?