Guns in school

[Pro2A]

So I posted a question in another forum about concealed carry in schools. Below is the question followed by a few responses. How would you argue some of the responses?

I always hear people say that guns and kids don't mix. Personally I think it's a crock and I'll explain my reasoning in a moment. To me this 'gun free school zone' and 'guns and kids don't mix' are a play on emotions. I mean after all if you are against anything that is 'for the kids' you must automatically hate the kids.

It doesn't have to do with kids at all. They use 'kids' as a canard to make it painstakingly impossible to be a legal gun owner carrying a legal weapon. It's all about control of you and what you do. You see it with 'Cap and tax', 'Health care reform' and a bunch of other non-sense. It's all a play on emotions.

People say "well they could get a hold of it"

No they can't if you educate them and show them what they do. My 4 year old daughter knows what a gun is, what it can do, and she knows darn well not to touch them or daddy will be mad. For the record, she never has. It's quite simply about education, and quite frankly I feel very comfortable that with the education I provided her about guns, she would not go near them unless I said she could.

In a school how could a kid get a hold of it if it's concealed on your person and they have no clue it's there in the first place?

So I ask whole heatedly for a non sarcastic answer... what is the reasoning behind prohibiting an otherwise law abiding person from exercising a right, that is not rooted in controlling what others do or think simply based on an emotion? In addition, please explain to me the logic behind why "Well guns just don't belong in a school"... If they don't... why don't they? Again please provide an answer that is not rooted in controlling what others do or think simply based on an emotion...

And below are a few responses to that question.

Simple answer: People imagine Columbine or kids getting shot in the face.

That being said, I don't see the necessity of guns in schools. Plenty of people are careless with their firearms and all it takes is one careless teacher, assistant, parents, etc and yes, a kid could get ahold of it. Then of course, there's the very symbology of the firearm and what it means to most people.

I think you're just being angry here about further gun control. To put it bluntly, and you can sit there and deflect all you want, society is so astronomically different and the state of security both local and national are so vastly different than they were back then that it's flat insane to think that there is no reason to disallow guns in school.

You may think it's crazy, I think it's ridiculous not to see the potential danger in having guns around children. I normally agree with you when it comes to guns, in this case, I do not.

If you can't logically and easily see what could potentially happen, then I don't see the point in asking people to help you.

As a side note, the media doesn't lead me to believe anything. I just simply don't want my kids around adults with guns, unless those adults are police officers.

I have to go with my crossfire argument here if I can't use children. Schools are crowded places and I think a shootout inside the building breeds the potential for unintentional injury.

You can't argue for guns using phrases like "trust in your fellow man" and "the need to control", as the only reason a person would feel obliged to carry a gun in the first place is because they (a) do not trust their fellow man, and (b) feel the need to be in control.

Teachers are there to teach, they have way too many things going on than to worry about someone reaching for the gun. All it would take is one instance where a teacher turns his or her back and a kid gets a hold of it. It isn't comparable to someone carrying his gun while running to Lowe's to pick up some items.

So what do you guys think? It's a pretty one sided argument here.

[StraussiE WousiE]

Reading that makes my body hurt. How can people say "I don't want my kids around people with gun's unless they're a cop"?????

Are tehy gonna tell that to the BG kidnapping their kids? Are they gonna tell that to the BG robbing the store they're shopping in? Are they gonna tell that to the BG who storms into their child's school to shoot up the place???

What a shitty opinion.

You're exactly right, P2A, by saying you don't want gun's around the kids, you are essentially saying you don't want the kids protected from guns. That is a truth like no other.

People don't realise that by stopping the law abiding citizan from carrying a firearm, they are opening the door to all the BG's out there. It's just unbelievable how many peopel have that opinion. And the similar opinion "I just don't see myself ever needing one." ?!?!?!?!?!?! Dubya-Tee-Efff!!!!

I just can't grasp it. I can't see how people can seem so comfortable with not being protecting from the BG's. The same peopel seem to want other's to be unprepared as well. There should be a new word invented for what I'm feelign right now, cuz i can't think of one that fits my emotions.

/end

[AJG]

I found this particular quote to be interesting:

I think you're just being angry here about further gun control. To put it bluntly, and you can sit there and deflect all you want, society is so astronomically different and the state of security both local and national are so vastly different than they were back then that it's flat insane to think that there is no reason to disallow guns in school.

I think this is actually the first time I have heard any anti-gun person (perhpas I'm assuming incorrectly that this came from such a person) concede that the issue is the state of society and not the gun itself. Interesting.

[ReconLdr]

Was this in another gun forum?

It's like having a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

When someone goes into a school to shoot everyone up, how would/could anyone stop them without a gun?

Let's face it, not all schools have metal detectors and even if they did, a BG could shoot the Semi Retired old guy working security at the door on the way in.

On to some of the comments:

Simple answer: People imagine Columbine or kids getting shot in the face.

That being said, I don't see the necessity of guns in schools. Plenty of people are careless with their firearms and all it takes is one careless teacher, assistant, parents, etc and yes, a kid could get ahold of it. Then of course, there's the very symbology of the firearm and what it means to most people.

All it would take would be one careless person to leave their car keys lay on the desk. How many people could a kid injure or kill if he/she decided to go on a little joy ride in the teachers SUV?

The necessity of having guns in school is the BGs know it is a gun free place. There are teachers driving BMW and Cadillacs (at least at my kids school) and that means they could go into the school un-contested and rob the staff, take their keys and make sure there is no one to identify them in a line up later.

Do you have a crystal ball? Maybe you call Madam Bella your phone psychic before you leave your house everyday to determine if you need to carry your gun. I do not have any way of knowing where or when a criminal will atttempt to do what criminals do, rob, kill, rape me or my family. Until the day comes that I can predict the actions of the criminal elements in this world, I would prefer to have my gun with me. Concealed in a school of course.

My response is in blue, thinking about it that would pretty much answer all of them. I have a meeting to attend, I will revisit this later.

[Gunfighter04]

I'll try this one, I think each deserves an appropriate response.

"I think you're just being angry here about further gun control. To put it bluntly, and you can sit there and deflect all you want, society is so astronomically different and the state of security both local and national are so vastly different than they were back then that it's flat insane to think that there is no reason to disallow guns in school."

I think society is vastly different. The ability to accept responsibility for ones actions, and the number of people that are willing to go directly to murder, I believe are much greater than they were even 100 years ago. I feel the need for self defense is greater today that it may have been in the past.

I still haven't heard the argument that could counter the point that when I was in high school nearly all guys would carry a pocket knife and no one was ever stabbed. I always had the gun in my car for hunting after school, no one was ever shot, yes society is different, but not in the matter that self defense is less required than in the past.

[t1m0thy]

I found this particular quote to be interesting:



I think this is actually the first time I have heard any anti-gun person (perhpas I'm assuming incorrectly that this came from such a person) concede that the issue is the state of society and not the gun itself. Interesting.

That's not new to me. My Aunt tried that one on me. She asked me if I thought that we really needed to carry guns around anymore since times have changed. My mom who isn't even anti-gun told me that the 2nd amendment was written when the country was a wilderness and people needed guns. I almost screamed aloud in frustration. I have since educated her and my aunt about the right of the individual to have ability to preserve his life and liberty in a free society. Guns aren't just there to protect us from bad guys; they are there to protect us from tyrannical government as well. Something the left wing refuses to acknowledge.

[Jailkeeper]

+1!

(10 chars.)

[mrjam2jab]

That being said, I don't see the necessity of guns in schools. Plenty of people are careless with their firearms and all it takes is one careless teacher, assistant, parents, etc and yes, a kid could get ahold of it. Then of course, there's the very symbology of the firearm and what it means to most people.

So they're worried about offending someone?

You may think it's crazy, I think it's ridiculous not to see the potential danger in having guns around children. I normally agree with you when it comes to guns, in this case, I do not.

If you can't logically and easily see what could potentially happen, then I don't see the point in asking people to help you.

and

I have to go with my crossfire argument here if I can't use children. Schools are crowded places and I think a shootout inside the building breeds the potential for unintentional injury.

Using those arguments, then one should never take a gun out in public.

[ReconLdr]

How about you ask each of them to give you an actual reason to not have guns in school. Not because it's against the law, a real reason. Each of them gave you an emotional response to your question. How about you have them prove with numbers proving their side of the arguement.

[CapnOfMyFate]

I can understand the skittishness of parents, but they need to realize that a firearm is just as capable of saving lives as it is "taking" them; it all depends on the one who wields it. They also need to realize that yes, even good, well-intentioned people can make mistakes and errors in judgment, and there are long established remedies in our legal system to deal with those who are irresponsible. Preventing the unthinkable by disallowing good, reponsible people to choose to take responsibility for protecting themselves and those under their care is not a reasonable solution when the desired result is to eliminate "accidents."