Got pulled over, and my PX4 was confiscated

[jkroner659]

I will try to make this as short as possible(update:brace yourselves and grab some popcorn...)but it never works out that way. Alright...I got pulled over a few hours ago for making a left on a yellow/red. I had my PX4 on me...you know, the replacement Beretta sent directly to my house for my trigger sting warranty exchange...ya, you know where this is going. As soon as the officer got up to my window he asked me if I had any weapons in the car(Maybe the Beretta logo and NRA sticker tipped him off ), I of course said yes, on my right hip, he then thinks for a moment, asks me to step out and says he is going to disarm me(another officer just arrived), I say sure go ahead and he does. 25 minutes later(not exaggerating) he finally comes to talk to me again, and says "The problem we are having is that your gun's serial# comes up with nothing, absolutely nothing ".

I of course knew about 3/4 of the way into his sentence what he was going to say. I then told him what happened with Beretta shipping a brand new replacement to me and said I have the paperwork(So, so glad I saved the paperwork they sent along with the gun). After talking for another 20 or so minutes(again, not exaggerating, this was a 45-50 minute traffic stop) with the Chief on his cell phone, the chief tells him to confiscate my gun/ammo/mag until he reviews my incident on Monday and talks to me. Of course the chief works 7-3 and I have to find a way to get there when I am at work. Before this officer let's me go I said I wanted to come down to the dept. and bring him my Beretta paperwork. I call his cell phone a half hour later to see if he was still writing the report at the office. I go, make copies of all the paperwork and fill out a report so the Chief can read my own words/description Monday while I am at work(maybe I won't have to go between 7 and 3 if he approves the release of items).

Good news is I don't think I am getting a ticket, bad news is they got my PX4 in a evidence bag for the weekend. Oh, and when I went to the police station, I was carrying my 21a(I also was going to the grocery store right after), as soon as I am about to walk into the police station, he asks me if I am armed, I said yes and point to a spot under my shirt. He looks at me() then asks me to please put it in my car. As I walk back another officer who is outside(Sgt. oic I guess) says "that shows poor judgment bringing a gun to a police station when you currently have an issue with another gun". I say "It's a legal gun first of all, 2nd, I am a good guy, not a bad guy, and I didn't want to leave my gun in my car". Of course he says "I don't know if your a bad guy or not I just met you". So we proceed into the station and one pats me down. Then I just sat down and filled out a report of what took place and my explanation for the serial # not being in the PA state police database.

I gotta say, while I am not sure about the legality of their confiscation of my legally owned firearm, The officer who originally pulled me over was nice and professional from the start, he was just following what his chief told him to do so I don't have any issues with him, he's is/is gonna be a good police officer for sure(less than 2 years since he graduated the academy). His coworker apologized to me while I was writing my report for saying that it showed bad judgment carrying into a police station and admits he feels the same way about leaving his gun in his car and also carry's into other dept's(even though some officers don't even like other officers from other dept's carrying in there station apparently).

So it was nice they both came out of character after they realized I was no trouble and I got to sit down and talk to 2 pretty cool guys instead of "turned on" robots. Another officer who works there they told me, used to work for Beretta, so I guess he may be able to confirm to the chief that Beretta does in fact ship brand new replacement guns to private address for replacements. Anyway, to sum it up, I am upset that my legally owned gun is now in a evidence bag at least until Monday, but I am happy I probably won't have to pay for a ticket. Once the chief decided, it was out of the officer's hands even if I convinced them the gun was legally owned by me. I am sooooo glad I held onto that paperwork Beretta sent me. I am not going to name the police dept/officers involved(at least wait until I get my gun back), while I do not like how they can just take a legally owned/carried gun, the officer involved is a cool guy and was just doing what the chief told him to do. They got my PX4 behind bars guys, I am going to have to take him to the range when he get's out to cheer him up. I am going to look into the Chiefs decision just so I know if it is even legal to hold it until Monday but don't plan on making a big stink about it(depending on whether or not I get a ticket/the chief gives me a hassle).

[zachomega]

While I can't comment on your situation other than I'm sorry your gun was confiscated...I do have a general question for anybody else who reads this thread.

What do you do when a company sends you a gun like that? I have a friend who sent a Smith and Wesson J frame back (can't recall if it was a model 60 or 66) for a large chip in the frame. Smith and Wesson sent him an entirely new frame with a new serial number directly to his house. Same story. Is that even legal? Seems like it is going around the whole FFL transfer, right?

And does that entitle the police to confiscate your gun?

I worry because I will be sending back my Smith and Wesson Walther PPK/S. I suspect they will be swapping frames. Sure the slide will still have the original serial, but I will most likely have a mismatched frame which is the part which is transferred, not the slide.

I realize the gun manufacturers are trying to save you/themselves transfer fees, but is this really the best practice?

Sorry in advance as I'm really not trying to hijack this thread.

-Zach

[WhiteShadow]

I thought you were supposed to go to a FFL and get the serials changed or get the new serials added to your registration, after you get a gun back directly from the manufacter to avoid all this type of stuff? This is just the impression i've been under, forgive my ignorance if i'm totally full of shit, its happened before.

Regardless, i think this should be ended, no fines or charges, and your gun returned, if you show proof with your relevant paperwork.

Hope you get your gun back and this goes away.

[jkroner659]

I thought you were supposed to go to a FFL and get the serials changed or get the new serials added to your registration, after you get a gun back directly from the manufacter to avoid all this type of stuff? This is just the impression i've been under, forgive my ignorance if i'm totally full of shit, its happened before.

Regardless, i think this should be ended, no fines or charges, and your gun returned, if you show proof with your relevant paperwork.

Hope you get your gun back and this goes away.

The day I learned that Beretta was shipping a brand new replacement gun to my house, I called my FFL and asked him and he said if Beretta is shipping the gun directly to you, then you do not have to register it. He knows his stuff and is a member here but I don't want to say publicly without his approval that he told me that, only because I would want someone to ask me if that was ok to publish. So I went to a professional who knows his stuff and said that I did not have to if Beretta was shipping it directly to me so I am pretty positive that it's perfectly legal, it's just that the PA state police keep a incomplete database. Can someone who knows the laws instruct me(and others here) if the chief did anything to violate PA laws or the constitution by confiscating my legal gun? If they just give me my gun back with no ticket I would just instruct the chief on the laws and tell him what things he did wrong. If he gives me a problem, it would be nice to know that he violated some laws/rights, kinda like a ace under your sleeve.

[uniballin]

I was under the impression that there was not a "complete" gun database in PA and they couldn't take your gun just because it didn't come up.

(Apparently I am wrong )

And you can legally carry a gun into a police station... those guys are just giving you a hard time.

[HiredGoon]

I'd say contact a lawyer immediately; sounds like illegal confiscation of your property.

[psyche]

I was under the impression that there was not a "complete" gun database in PA and they couldn't take your gun just because it didn't come up.

(Apparently I am wrong )

And you can legally carry a gun into a police station... those guys are just giving you a hard time.

I was under this impression, as well. I mean sure handguns need to be run through an FFL (no FTF) and the serials would be "registered" so to speak in a PSP database. But either way, this sounds like illegal confiscation and it really grinds my gears. Can any lawyers around here confirm that sentiment?

[rwilson452]

Did the officer issue a receipt for the pistol? It's required by law.

[gnbrotz]

I thought you were supposed to go to a FFL and get the serials changed or get the new serials added to your registration, after you get a gun back directly from the manufacter to avoid all this type of stuff? This is just the impression i've been under, forgive my ignorance if i'm totally full of shit, its happened before.

Just curious what you base this opinion on?

§6111.4. Registration of Firearms.

Notwithstanding any section of this chapter to the contrary, nothing in this chapter shall be construed to allow any government or law enforcement agency or any agent thereof to create, maintain or operate any registry of firearm ownership within this Commonwealth. For the purposes of this section only, the term “firearm” shall include any weapon that is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon. (Added by L 1995. Spec. Sess 1, Act 17(6,), eff 10/11/95.)

The serial number coming back with "nothing, absolutely nothing" means just that.....NOTHING.

There are numerous legal ways to own/possess a firearm that will come up with non-matching info or no info at all.

[jkroner659]

Did the officer issue a receipt for the pistol? It's required by law.

Yes he did.