Viet Nam vs Iraq

[Montell C. Williams]

I believe the main reason there was much more anti-war sentiment during the Viet Nam war is that most of those killed in Viet Nam were 19 year old draftees and in Irag there are NO draftees and the avarage age is much older. During the VietNam war there were even songs saying "they sent him off to Viet Nam on his senior trip". Also the number killed every day was a lot higher and every day the news had a tally sheet they showed with American dead and Vietnamese dead.

[larrymeyer]

I'd agree with you but if that was the case why would you take it out on the returning GI's ? By calling them names, cursing them as baby killers etc. Why would Hanoi Jane be pictured on and anti aircraft gun. That basically shoots holes in your idea

[Dannytheman]

How about over 70,000 US soldiers dieing? How about us going into Vietnam to stop the spread of communism, not defeat terrorism. We were attacked on 9/11/01, no attack came from SE Asia.(It was the Domino Theory)

And yes, I know what we know now, there were no WMD's and blah, blah, blah.. But on 9/12/01 we had to do something. And a great airport we needed was in Iraq.

But I agree the draft was responsible for some of the discontent! Also, live news feeds from the war zones,(Remember "Live Via Satellite?") live coverage of the coffins.The draft thing was wrong, only college (AKA rich kids) deferments given. But I know I do not agree with the way it is now either.
I think every person needs to/must serve for some time in some way for their country!

[TaePo]

I personally believe that any war over one year old (or expected to be more than one year), should require a draft automatically.

I know there is talk of the quality of troops issue, but on the other hand, I cannot see sending the same person into the fray over and over and over again, until they are either maimed beyond further military use or killed.

What's with that? That should only be done for a war for our very survival and everyone should be involved in it, besides. WWII was such a war for example.

Even in Vietnam from what I read, they normally would not let anyone do three tours or more in general. You just get too whacked and hooked on adrenaline. Then you can never adapt back to civilian life, too pedestrian. (Also is why the birth of motorcycle gangs post WWII and Korea)

What shall we reap from this abomination? Time will only tell. For example, the one soldier that shot up the counseling center recently in Iraq.

My heart bleeds for the needs of fellow volunteers. The only thing that helped was the swelling of the ranks due to patriotism against the malicious attacks on our civilians. But it was not enough IMHO.

The problem with Vietnam was the loss of any support by the people and the government. It seemed so bad at the end that it would not have surprised me if the last ones out had to buy their own tickets home. Then all the blame goes to the individuals fighting, not the generals, the politicians and some of the other traitorous people such as Jane Fonda where the blame should go.

She had a platform and a right to speak out against the war but she went too far in going to North Vietnam and taking pictures etc. They should have denied her reentry into the US at the very least.

[larrymeyer]

Israel requires anyone both male and female over 18 years of age to do service. And you don't hear about the collage kids complaining but then they don't have many liberal professors in their collages

[larrymeyer]

How about over 70,000 US soldiers dieing? How about us going into Vietnam to stop the spread of communism, not defeat terrorism. We were attacked on 9/11/01, no attack came from SE Asia.(It was the Domino Theory)

Dan

We went to NAM at the request of the Vietnamese government back in the late 40's after the French were defeated. Truman sent troops in to train the Vietnamese Army. And the war just escalated during the 50's. In the 60's Kennedy send in the Special Forces and after that Johnson came out with the Naval destroyer that was sunk in the Gulf of Tonkin and it was a lie. By our own government to draw us in farther. But again troops never ask to be there just doing their duty I volunteered as I believed in the men I trained with who I knew were going their Never killed any babies did shoot a few woman who were working with Charlie and more then a few VC who would have returned the favor if they got or had I given them the chance. Oh did also shoot a dog but he had exposes strapped to him so I am a dog killer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident

[thanker92]

Hanoi Jane has "no regrets" about manning an AA gun in N. Vietnam. She has said as much and stated that she is "proud" of her actions and also believes that she has been "proven right"...
As for having the first ammendment right to free speech: Did that apply to Tokyo Rose? All she did was voice her opinion. Hanoi Jane used her celebrity status to aid the enemy.
Just my .03....(inflation)

[Dannytheman]

Dan

We went to NAM at the request of the Vietnamese government back in the late 40's after the French were defeated. Truman sent troops in to train the Vietnamese Army. And the war just escalated during the 50's. In the 60's Kennedy send in the Special Forces and after that Johnson came out with the Naval destroyer that was sunk in the Gulf of Tonkin and it was a lie. By our own government to draw us in farther. But again troops never ask to be there just doing their duty I volunteered as I believed in the men I trained with who I knew were going their Never killed any babies did shoot a few woman who were working with Charlie and more then a few VC who would have returned the favor if they got or had I given them the chance. Oh did also shoot a dog but he had exposes strapped to him so I am a dog killer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Incident

Understood!! The entire theory behind all of it was the Domino Theory.

<<<<The domino theory was a foreign policy act, promoted by the government of the United States, that speculated that if one land in a region came under the influence of communism, then the surrounding countries would follow in a domino effect. The domino effect suggests that some change, small in itself, will cause a similar change nearby, which then will cause another similar change, and so on in linear sequence, by analogy to a falling row of dominoes standing on end. The domino theory was used by successive United States administrations during the Cold War to clarify the need for American intervention around the world.

Referring to communism in Indochina, U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower put the theory into words during an April 7, 1954 news conference:
“ Finally, you have broader considerations that might follow what you would call the "falling domino" principle. You have a row of dominoes set up, you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly. So you could have a beginning of a disintegration that would have the most profound influences. ”

—Dwight D. Eisenhower
In 1945, the Soviet Union brought most of the countries of Eastern Europe and Central Europe under its influence as part of the post-World War II settlement, prompting Winston Churchill to declare in a speech in 1946 at Westminster College in Fulton, Missouri that:

"From Stetting in the Baltic to Trieste in the Adriatic an "iron curtain" has descended across the Continent. Behind that line lie all the capitals of the ancient states of Central and Eastern Europe. Warsaw, Prague, Budapest, Belgrade, Bucharest and Sofia; all these famous cities and the populations around them lie in what I must call the Soviet sphere, and all are subject, in one form or another, not only to Soviet influence but to a very high and in some cases increasing measure of control from Moscow."

In 1947, Harry Truman declared what became known as the Truman Doctrine, promising to contribute financial aid to Greece and Turkey following World War II, in the hope that this would impede the advancement of Communism into Western Europe. Later that year, diplomat George Kennan wrote an article in Foreign Affairs magazine that became known as the "X Article", which first articulated the policy of containment, arguing that the further spread of Communism to countries outside a "buffer zone" around the USSR, even if democratically elected, was unacceptable and a threat to U.S. national security. Kennan was also involved, along with others in the Truman administration, in creating the Marshall Plan, which also began in 1947, to give aid to the countries of Western Europe (along with Greece and Turkey), in large part with the hope of keeping them from falling under Soviet domination.

In 1949, China became a Communist country (officially the People's Republic of China) after Chinese Communist rebels defeated the Nationalist Republican government in the conclusion of the Chinese Civil War (1927~1949). Two China were formed - mainland 'Communist China' (People's Republic of China) and 'Nationalist China' Taiwan (Republic of China). The takeover by Communists of the world's most populous nation was seen in the West as a great strategic loss, prompting the popular question at the time, "Who lost China?"[1]

Korea had also parially fallen under Soviet domination at the end of World War II, under the same demilitarization agreements in the formerly Japanese-occupied far east as those applied to formerly Nazi-occupied Central Europe. In 1950 fighting broke out between Communists and Republicans that soon involved troops from China (on the Communists' side), and the United States and 15 allied countries (on the Republicans' side). The war ended in 1953 with an armistice that left Korea divided into two nations, North Korea and South Korea.

In March 1954, the Viet Minh, a Communist and nationalist army, defeated French troops and took control of what became North Vietnam. This caused the French to fully withdraw from the region then known as French Indochina, a process it had begun earlier. The region was now comprised of four independent countries: North Vietnam, South Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos.

President Eisenhower was the first to refer to countries in danger of Communist takeover as dominoes, in response to a journalist's question about Indochina in an April 7, 1954 news conference, though he did not use the term "domino theory".[2] If Communists succeeded in taking over the rest of Indochina, Eisenhower argued, local groups would then have the encouragement, material support and momentum to take over Burma, Thailand, Malaya and Indonesia; all of these countries had large popular Communist movements and insurgencies within their borders at the time. This would give them a geographical and economic strategic advantage, and it would make Japan, Taiwan, the Philippines, Australia, and New Zea land the front line defensive states. The loss of regions traditionally within the vital regional trading area of countries like Japan would encourage the front line countries to compromise politically with communism.

Eisenhower's domino theory of 1954 was a specific description of the situation and conditions within Southeast Asia at the time, and he did not suggest a generalized domino theory as others did afterward.

The John F. Kennedy administration intervened in Vietnam in the early 1960s to, among other reasons, keep the South Vietnamese "domino" from falling. When Kennedy came to power there was concern that the communist-dominated Pathet Lao in Laos would provide the National Liberation Front with bases, and that eventually they could take over Laos.

[GoldWinger]

I'd agree with you but if that was the case why would you take it out on the returning GI's ? By calling them names, cursing them as baby killers etc. Why would Hanoi Jane be pictured on and anti aircraft gun. That basically shoots holes in your idea

Well, you have to consider that most of the protesters were college age and they really aren't the smart bunch of people. Too enthusiastic. Too much energy. Too much action without reflection.

The protesters never stopped to consider that most of the soldiers were unwilling participants in the war.

[lorrel]

Different times.
Vietnam as you know was during the rebelous 60's. And it was a war that divided our nation. It would be correct to say that the age of the average soldier during Vietnam was younger than was the age of the Iraqi veteran, and a great deal of those who went to Vietnam were drafted.
The Vietnam war was ill defined, and doomed from the beginning as it lacked support and many wondered why we were there in the first place. That would include both civilians here in the United States, and the men fighting in the jungles alike.
The Iraqi War stemmed from a very different nature. The United States was attacked on it's homefront, and by this time we were no longer a nation divided. Thanks to the Reagan years, we had grown again into a patriotic nation.
As time took it's toll, many here felt this war also was ill advised, however I believe there are many more who still back it.

Let me add the media had alot to do with both wars. During the Vietnam era, there were far more protesters in the streets and during media coverage one could not watch any segment without hearing the term "baby killers". While this was not a true fact, and most soldiers in Vietnam took care to not shoot indiscrimintly, there was in fact the MyLai Massacre, which only helped to insure that more and more people back in the states believed that all veterans were baby killers.
The media coverage of the Iraqi war is far different from the coverage of Vietnam, and provides the American fightingman in Iraq on a positive note.