Why did I have to go through PICS for a rifle?

[cadence2arms]

I was at an auction the other day picked up a few long rifles and I had to wait in line for over an hour because they did a check on everyone buying a gun. I live in state and was purchasing a rifle. Do they always do that. Also I purchased a 10/22 the other day at a gun shop and I am pretty sure they did it then also. I htough there was no need to when purchasing rifles. Also if I decide to sell a rifle do I have to worry about who I am selling it to?

[Robert Kayland]

I was at an auction the other day picked up a few long rifles and I had to wait in line for over an hour because they did a check on everyone buying a gun. I live in state and was purchasing a rifle. Do they always do that. Also I purchased a 10/22 the other day at a gun shop and I am pretty sure they did it then also. I htough there was no need to when purchasing rifles. Also if I decide to sell a rifle do I have to worry about who I am selling it to?

Private sales among two in-state individuals in PA don't need to go through a PICS check, but when you buy from a dealer, they always do the check... leastwise, all of the dealers with whom I've done business...

Don't know if that's the law for dealers, but I don't know of any dealer who won't run the PICS check, even for a used rifle. I'm assuming the auctioneer was an FFL.

As far as YOUR selling to a private individual, IMHO... I would always demand that a bill of sale be exchanged, one which contains at least the name and PA driver's license number of the buyer, and his signature, stating something along the lines of how he maintains that he is legally eligible to own the firearm. And if he didn't have a valid LTCF (although technically not needed), I would recommend going through a dealer and doing an official transfer with PICS check.

It's just not worth the hassle if you don't know your buyer and can't show you did due diligence if something criminal should ever happen with the rifle.

[cadence2arms]

I see. I wasn't sure how the auction house was gonna take care of things but I guess they must have a ffl. Just seemed odd that there wasn't a quicker way to get 50-100 ppl out of there other than calling pics for each person.

[tes151]

Must be up to the dealer. I bought a .22 rifle at the York gun show. I handed him the cash, and he handed me the rifle. End of transaction.

[39flathead]

Must be up to the dealer. I bought a .22 rifle at the York gun show. I handed him the cash, and he handed me the rifle. End of transaction.

Either he was not a licensed dealer, or he is a criminal in the eyes of the BATFE.


As to the OP, either the auctioneer was a ffl or he was just covering his ass, either way, I'm sure he announced his "rules" before the auction if he is a good auctioneer.

Either way, if you got a good deal, what's a little wait?

[gnbrotz]

Either he was not a licensed dealer, or he is a criminal in the eyes of the BATFE.

Or he was selling one of his personal rifles, not one in his 'dealer inventory'.

[Xringshooter]

The only way a FFL can sell a long gun without doing the background check is if he is selling a personal gun. When a FFL transfers a gun to himself, he by law, cannot sell it as a personal gun for 1 calender year. If sold before 1 year, he would have to ransfer it back into his business and do the background check on the individual buying it. Handguns, it doesn't matter how long the FFL has owned them, all legal handgun sales must go through a FFL and a background check must be done, except when the exemption for spouse-spouse, parent/grandparent-child/grandchild clause is used.

Also, when buying from an auction, you are not buying from an individual. Basically the individual has turned his guns over to the auctionerr on a consignment basis, so the auctioneer now "owns" the gun and it has gone into his bound book and gets handled the same as if you are buying it at a gun shop. If the auction was for a deceased person, you're buying from the estate and again the executor of the estate has "consigned" the guns to the auctioneer.

[Warpt762x39]

That must be a state law thing. In AZ they just check your id for your age when buying a long gun. Handguns require a check but only at a dealer. Person to person sales don't require background checks. Well it was that way the last time I checked a couple years ago

[knight0334]

That must be a state law thing. In AZ they just check your id for your age when buying a long gun. Handguns require a check but only at a dealer. Person to person sales don't require background checks. Well it was that way the last time I checked a couple years ago

Its a federal thing.

All commercial transfers at a FFL of handguns and long guns require a background check. Whether it be thru NICS, or a state managed system like PA elected to do via PICS.

Private transfers are exempt by federal law. Some states require a check though for private transfers. Also, some states' permits/licenses for carry exempt the bearer of the required NICS/POCS check.

[PPM209]

Also, when buying from an auction, you are not buying from an individual. Basically the individual has turned his guns over to the auctionerr on a consignment basis, so the auctioneer now "owns" the gun and it has gone into his bound book and gets handled the same as if you are buying it at a gun shop. If the auction was for a deceased person, you're buying from the estate and again the executor of the estate has "consigned" the guns to the auctioneer.

That's why I love auctions where the person is still alive and present at the auction. Then, you get the auction deal AND it is a FTF transaction at the end. No PICS - no wait, no additional cost. I've done this a couple of times and it is my preferred way to do an auction.