M1911, 9mm or .38 Super?

[bob308]

well i can not understand how anyone that wants to shoot a handgun at any skill levell above beginner does not reload.

there is another option i played with it many years ago. it is a .38-45. a .45 case necked down to use a .357 bullet. this came out in the 70's. where do you think the idea for the .357 sig came from?

to shoot the .38-45 all you need is a barrel chambered for it . the frame and slide for a standard .45 works.

[Valorius]

I think we need to specify penetration at this point. Armor, elephant, or people...

Because again, .45acp penetrates very well... And I'd really, like to see any non-brass, or steel projectile coming from 9mm or .38 super penetrate even class II body armor. I don't see it happening, as neither were designed to do it. And those are rated to stop much faster rounds.

Again, why I see no point to the super. I don't see it doing anything .45 won't do.

In the months since this post was made, i shot Buffalo Bore 115gr Montana Gold match JHP hard-cast lead brass jacketed factory 9mm+P+ ammo through a 25 layer Safariland IIIA vest. Test gun was a G17.

Here are the videos:

First test shot:



Second test shot:



Ballistics of that round from Browning High Power as listed on BB website:

velocity 1425fps, energy 515fpe (for all intents and purposes this loading exceeds short barrel .357 magnum performance by a considerable margin)

IMO, this is also the best 9mm+P+ trail defense load money can buy. In tnoutdoors' wet pack tests that he did with this round, the penetration into the wet pack media was truly immense.

My understanding is that it will pierce most body armor which is appealing.

It will pierce body armor with the 9mm barrel installed too, as long as you're using the right ammo, as the above videos show.

We also tested the same vest vs a .45 ACP 1911. The .45 acp penetrated 4 of 25 layers.

Note: Buffalo Bore no longer loads the MGM 9mm bullet into it's 9mm+P+ 115gr loading, but it would be easy enough for a handloader or other custom manufacturer to mimic the same load using the MGM bullet, which is still available for purchase.