Florida teen shot and killed over loud music

[Fcaseyf]

Didn't you say that they should wear headphones when that would be illegal for a driver anyway

[SteveinNEPA]

Didn't you say that they should wear headphones when that would be illegal for a driver anyway

Just to point this out, not sure about the legality of it, but look around at alot of drivers listening to their Ipods and what not with ear buds or those big ugly beats by dre head phones... Cant hear a damn thing I would imagine...

[GunLawyer001]

Another Rorschach thread, where a majority of you impose your prejudices on an ambiguous situation.

Fact is, it doesn't matter what caused the shooter to approach the kids. Could have been a question about their Obama bumper sticker, maybe they were whistling at his daughter, maybe he was asking for directions, maybe he asked if they wanted to know more about Amway products or the truth about Jesus. He didn't shoot the kid because of the music. So get over that. The thread title is wrong.

Is it illegal for a man to approach a car full of kids? Nope. Is it "provocation" to suggest that their music is too loud? Nope, not unless you lower the standards and assume that any negative vibes will just naturally cause the urban yutes to become violent, which is a condescension that I for one am unwilling to make. We are free people, we are not required to assume that some people will irrationally attack us if we approach, they aren't animals. You don't stick your hand out to a strange dog, but you are allowed to talk to other Americans in public, even the scary ones.

What you have here is a situation with a big gap in the important part:
1. Man approaches car.
2. Man complains about music.
3. (something happens)
4. Man shoots just one out of the three, firing maybe 9 shots.

Whether this is justified or not depends ENTIRELY on what happened in Step 3. Did the kids point a shotgun at him? We don't know, maybe we never will, because it takes just a second or two to dump a shotgun before the police arrive, and we know for damn sure that the survivors will say that they had no gun, whether they had one or not.

Should he have retreated instead of firing? Depends on what that "something" was that happened. If they simply said "go away or we'll punch you", then yes, he should have. If they pointed a 12 gauge at him, then no, not unless he can run faster than 1500 feet per second. Pretty sure he couldn't.

It's absolutely true that you can't shoot someone for playing loud music, not even if it's the Horst Wessel and you're a Holocaust survivor. But the story is not about a man shooting a kid over loud music, it's apparently about a man who approached some kids over loud music, who then shot one of them because of "something" that happened.

You are permitted to approach people, you are permitted to discuss matters of concern. He did nothing wrong in complaining about the music. Until more facts or witness statements come out, it's very revealing how some of ya'll are so very sure that you know this was unjustified, without having a clue what "something" happened before he shot.

[yeager484]

If my understanding of this story and others published about this incident isn't too hazy at 130am, I believe it was the shooter who drove off not the kids.

If the kids didn't drive off and it was established there were no weapons in the car I'm not really sure what would warrant a self defense shooting.

Maybe they said "I'll kill you old man". If that's reason to draw and fire 8 or 9 shots into the kids car..so be it, reasonable self defense shooting.

ETA: fleeing draws suspicion, imo.

[WitsBusa]

Gunlawyer.. I don't think anyone is implying that the crux of the eventual case will be the decibel level of the music..

I think some of these replies are to CL's apparent attitude that something, ie. bumping music, offends his sensitivities, that the perpetrator is a disrespectful punk and it's no big loss..

I think that self-centered attitude is pervasive in society anymore.. my reaction to him is not in the context of whether this shooting was justified or not.

[GunLawyer001]

Gunlawyer.. I don't think anyone is implying that the crux of the eventual case will be the decibel level of the music..

I think some of these replies are to CL's apparent attitude that something, ie. bumping music, offends his sensitivities, that the perpetrator is a disrespectful punk and it's no big loss..

I think that self-centered attitude is pervasive in society anymore.. my reaction to him is not in the context of whether this shooting was justified or not.

The title of this thread is "Florida teen shot and killed over loud music".

A number of responses here have been "nobody deserves to die because he made too much noise."

I think it goes beyond "implying", it reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of how a single series of events is comprised of multiple decision points.

Was the shooter acting illegally when he objected to the loud noise?
Was the shooter within his rights to be standing where he was standing?
Would the teens have been within their rights to threaten to kill the guy?

There was "something" that made the shooter react by shooting. His lawyer says it was the reckless youths making verbal threats and pointing a shotgun at him. I think that's AT LEAST as plausible, and consistent with experience with teens of the type who play loud music and sass adults, as the notion that this guy who was old enough to have a kid getting married, would suddenly snap and shoot an innocent teen for no reason at all.

I can easily imagine 4 teen boys acting like invulnerable assholes, and making joking or serious threats to blow him away. I myself was once a teenaged boy, there was nothing that could hurt me, and if you threw me in with some other idiot teens I was capable of making very bad decisions.

Now I'm a lot older, with a clean criminal record, and while I might complain about noise, I wouldn't casually shoot anyone. But if some teens pointed a shotgun at me, I might. I have a hard time imagining an adult who has no criminal history (assumed, because he had a license to carry), suddenly snapping and screaming "you're playing Carmina Burana too loud (BANG!)(BANG!)(BANG!)(BANG!)(BANG!)(BANG!)(BANG!)( BANG!)"

[streaker69]

There was "something" that made the shooter react by shooting. His lawyer says it was the reckless youths making verbal threats and pointing a shotgun at him. I think that's AT LEAST as plausible, and consistent with experience with teens of the type who play loud music and sass adults, as the notion that this guy who was old enough to have a kid getting married, would suddenly snap and shoot an innocent teen for no reason at all.

"

I hadn't heard that the guy claimed there was a shotgun aimed at him, if there was, then I'd say he's justified. I can also attest from personal experience that the muzzle of a paintball gun coming out of a window of a moving car, looks very much like a muzzle of a shotgun. Especially at night. So even if there wasn't a shotgun, but something that possibly looked like one, I'd say the guy was justified.

[GunLawyer001]

I hadn't heard that the guy claimed there was a shotgun aimed at him, if there was, then I'd say he's justified. I can also attest from personal experience that the muzzle of a paintball gun coming out of a window of a moving car, looks very much like a muzzle of a shotgun. Especially at night. So even if there wasn't a shotgun, but something that possibly looked like one, I'd say the guy was justified.

From Reuters:

Dunn's lawyer, Robin Lemonidis, told reporters that someone in the SUV brandished a shotgun and Dunn opened fire on the vehicle in self-defense.
"It will be very clear that Mr. Dunn acted responsibly, and as any responsible firearms owner would have acted, under these same circumstances," Lemonidis said.

Another link (appears that he never got out of his car):
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content...Koi-tdbZA.cspx

[30Glock]

I hadn't heard that the guy claimed there was a shotgun aimed at him, if there was, then I'd say he's justified..

Here is the link where the attorney talks about the shotgun


http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/28/us/flo...usic-shooting/

[customloaded]

One would think youth would get the message that acting like bad asses might not be good for a long life. Look like a duck, walk like a duck, quack like a duck, well, you might get shot because a duck hunter believed you were a duck. Dress like a gangster, act like a gangster, play gangster music, make threats like a gangster, and show a perceived weapon like a gangster, well, I guess you get treated like a gangster.

I had no idea what the racial make up of the actors were but I had ideas. After watching the video and the pictures of the deceased youth, is there any wonder why this incident is all over the news? How many movies, news stories, and other media outlets bombard us on a daily basis that black youth kill white people? Perform home invasions? Create destruction all across our country? Thousands and then we set back and wonder why incidents like this happen.

I truly feel sorry for Michael Dunn because I have no doubt he was scared for his life and the life of his wife after the fine young men decided to threaten him with death.

CL