A moral obligation of gun owners...?

**mojo** · January 28th, 2010, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by nepawolf

If you feel a threat to your life, shoot them dead. Keep shooting until there is no more threat to your life. If there is no threat, whip out your camera phone and take a pic of their face, and tell them you're going to give it to the cops. There might be a threat to your life then, in which case, kill them. If they ran away like the yellow-bellied coward like most criminals, give the pic to the cops and do a police report. There's not much else you can do without breaking the laws yourself.

I wouldn't do this. Shooting 'till he is dead might land you in prison. Technically you shoot until the threat is over. If is alive and not a threat, you can't shoot him.

There HAS been cases where basically someone has emptied their mag into an aggressor. The victim was charged and CONVICTED because he continued to shoot. I don't the case at hand, but I might still have the hard copy. It was very interesting to read.

It is stupid. When people are in that situation, they typically don't even realize how many rounds they fire off. It should be a defining part of the case, but it is.

**NikeBauer21** · January 28th, 2010, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by mojo

I wouldn't do this. Shooting 'till he is dead might land you in prison. Technically you shoot until the threat is over. If is alive and not a threat, you can't shoot him.

There HAS been cases where basically someone has emptied their mag into an aggressor. The victim was charged and CONVICTED because he continued to shoot. I don't the case at hand, but I might still have the hard copy. It was very interesting to read.

It is stupid. When people are in that situation, they typically don't even realize how many rounds they fire off. It should be a defining part of the case, but it is.

However, I also know of cases where the victim was presented with a lawsuit, and the suspect, or their family won because they could testify against the victim.

Use just the right amount of force necessary..

**nepawolf** · January 28th, 2010, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by mojo

If you feel a threat to your life, shoot them dead. Keep shooting until there is no more threat to your life. If there is no threat, whip out your camera phone and take a pic of their face, and tell them you're going to give it to the cops. There might be a threat to your life then, in which case, kill them. If they ran away like the yellow-bellied coward like most criminals, give the pic to the cops and do a police report. There's not much else you can do without breaking the laws yourself.

I wouldn't do this. Shooting 'till he is dead might land you in prison. Technically you shoot until the threat is over. If is alive and not a threat, you can't shoot him.

There HAS been cases where basically someone has emptied their mag into an aggressor. The victim was charged and CONVICTED because he continued to shoot. I don't the case at hand, but I might still have the hard copy. It was very interesting to read.

It is stupid. When people are in that situation, they typically don't even realize how many rounds they fire off. It should be a defining part of the case, but it is.

You must have misunderstood. Double tap the chest or face, and if they're still alive and are still a threat to your life keep shooting until they are not a threat to your life. If they are not a threat or are not alive after the initial set, then there is no reason to keep shooting. You are, however, going to be better off in a legal battle with no one to testify against you. More immediately, the lack of a threat to yourself and those around you will suffice. If the concept of killing someone is your issue, then it would seem that your moral fortitude would be better off with carrying a less-than-lethal option.

**falcn** · January 28th, 2010, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by GLK_19

OK, thanks for clearing that up. I live in Michigan, though, so I'm not sure if our laws are similar. I'm taking a CCW class this spring, so I'm sure topics like this will be in discussion. If not, I'll likely take a class about defense.

Whoops didn't pay attention to your location. Not sure on Michigan - but the safe bet (from a legal defense standpoint) anywhere is to not shoot someone if you are not in fear of your life.

Do your research and talk to a lawyer in your area.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...s/firearms.pdf

**GuyMontag** · January 28th, 2010, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by falcn

but the safe bet (from a legal defense standpoint) anywhere is to not shoot someone if you are not in fear of your life.

So, is there another instance when you wouldn't be in fear of your life and you might shoot someone? Maybe they took your parking place or cut in line or just looked at you funny? I try to restrict the shooting of others to only when I need to do so to stop them from killing me.

**falcn** · January 28th, 2010, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by GuyMontag

So, is there another instance when you wouldn't be in fear of your life and you might shoot someone? Maybe they took your parking place or cut in line or just looked at you funny? I try to restrict the shooting of others to only when I need to do so to stop them from killing me.

I am unclear as to why you are asking these 2 questions. My response was DO NOT SHOOT if you are not in fear for your life.

If in reference to my "legal defense" addition - some states allow you to defend property with deadly force.

**GLK_19** · January 28th, 2010, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by falcn

If in reference to my "legal defense" addition - some states allow you to defend property with deadly force.

Is that what the "Castle doctrine" is then? I realize it's probably not that simple, but in a nut shell?

**Orive 8** · January 28th, 2010, 06:22 PM

Here is the scenario that I give to our students in our defensive pistol class.

You are sitting at home, with your trusty sidearm on. Mongo the Barbarian kicks in your front door, his size 16 boot print on the door at his feet, he stands about 6'4" and 275 lbs, he has a crowbar in hand. He stands in the doorway looking at you with his "I’m going to get me some" look on his face.

You draw your trusty sidearm as you step behind cover and give him a verbal command (in your best command voice) of DON'T MOVE or STOP followed by DROP THE WEAPON, etc…

Mongo has three choices to make at this time:

#1: He stops and stands there dropping the weapon, in which case you continue to use your command voice ordering him to get on the ground or get out of the house, etc... (lots of other things you can command him to do, take some training or read some good defensive tactics books for more info if you are inclined).

#2: He turns around and runs out the door, in which case you pick up the phone, dial 911 and give a description of the man that just broke into your house armed with a weapon. Give them the direction in which he was last headed so that the cops can do an area search and let them know that you are available to identify him if he is caught, etc....

#3: Mongo advances on you, in which case; if you feel that your life is in the immediate threat of death or grave bodily harm, you shoot to defend yourself and your family.

You have no "moral obligation" to stop/capture this guy, other than to yourself and your family. If you want to be the Lone Ranger, there are numerous Law Enforcement Agencies looking to hire good qualified individuals.