Listening to the radio at work... New Pa law?

[MostlyHarmless]

I'm not agreeing to any type of registry or list, nor do I think it is a good idea. I'm merely stating the inconvenience of going through a FFL for a long gun transfer is a much smaller pill to swallow than an entire AWB. Nothing more, nothing less.

Is there ANY data on what percentage of "illegally possessed" firearms were obtained through private resident to resident transfers?

I would like to see such information before articulating an opinion about if we need to do something about private sales or not.

I have done private transactions. Since in PA both parties must be PA residents, there isn't much of a problem even between strangers. People mutually exchange their valid LTCF. Being in possession of a valid LTCF means that you have passed a PICS within the last 5 years, so you weren't prohibited at that time. The only chance that I'm selling to a prohibited person is that you committed a crime since your last LTCF renewal and the Sheriff didn't hunt you down to collect it yet. Since as a private person I cannot call PICS, I have to take that chance.

And there you already have one thing that could be changed, if private sales would be a problem. Make it mandatory that both, seller and buyer, call some phone number. An answering system takes the call, the caller punches in the LTCF number and the system responds with "valid" or "not valid". Nothing more required. No more information revealed. Can be done from any cell phone right on the parking lot, where the transaction takes place. The system would have no clue who is buying, who is selling or if guns are exchanged at all. But both parties would be 100% sure that the person in front of them isn't a prohibited person (they don't have valid LTCFs).

No FFL needed after all.


Jan

[internet troll]

... none of you are willing to give on any regulations to help appease the others.

Not sure why we should "appease the others" when a fundamental part of the Constitution is being discussed. This is not appeasing the wife by taking her out for dinner because she needs a break from cooking. We are talking about a right stated clearly in the law of the land. Accepting infringements to appease others should not be accepted imo. Gun owners have been giving in to "reasonable demands" little by little for years. It has led to thousands of restrictions which can quickly turn an honest person into a criminal if they make one small mistake. All those "reasonable demands" mean very little to true criminals though. Everytime we give up one small right, we are that much closer to losing the right to bear arms altogether. imo

[MostlyHarmless]

"Reasonable demands" are always fun.

Try to discuss "duty to inform (officer about carrying concealed)" with one of those "common sense" advocates. It gets really funny after you explain the implications of the 5th Amendment and what that means for a concealed carrying criminal.

"Reasonable demands" and "common sense" legislation lead to one thing only. A jungle of contradicting micro laws that in the end mean that you can as well roll the dice to figure out if you go to prison or should walk free.


Jan

[bortle]

Do you REALLY care if long guns need to go through an FFL? If thats all they do, id be happy. Id live with a $20 transfer fee if I had to

First it's $20 then $40 then $100 Then $1000. That will make you quit buying so many guns.

[BandanaBandit1]

Is there ANY data on what percentage of "illegally possessed" firearms were obtained through private resident to resident transfers?

I would like to see such information before articulating an opinion about if we need to do something about private sales or not.

I have done private transactions. Since in PA both parties must be PA residents, there isn't much of a problem even between strangers. People mutually exchange their valid LTCF. Being in possession of a valid LTCF means that you have passed a PICS within the last 5 years, so you weren't prohibited at that time. The only chance that I'm selling to a prohibited person is that you committed a crime since your last LTCF renewal and the Sheriff didn't hunt you down to collect it yet. Since as a private person I cannot call PICS, I have to take that chance.

And there you already have one thing that could be changed, if private sales would be a problem. Make it mandatory that both, seller and buyer, call some phone number. An answering system takes the call, the caller punches in the LTCF number and the system responds with "valid" or "not valid". Nothing more required. No more information revealed. Can be done from any cell phone right on the parking lot, where the transaction takes place. The system would have no clue who is buying, who is selling or if guns are exchanged at all. But both parties would be 100% sure that the person in front of them isn't a prohibited person (they don't have valid LTCFs).

No FFL needed after all.


Jan

Okay,...BUT what about adult residents residing in PA who are atleast 18 years old but not yet 21? An 18 y/o can buy a rifle ftf but cannot legally obtain a PALTCF to carry a concealed weapon until 21. You would be surprised at the number of young adults that I've come across recently that seem to buying their first firearms..

[yeager484]

How about this ... when the feds come knocking on your door to take your guns, drop me a PM with your phone number. Ill give you a call to apologize and tell you how completely right you were

Regarding US Military being directed to seize firearms after Katrina.
Tried to quote it as good as I could.


"What do you do when they stack right(?), and they're prepped to come into the home? There's no negotiating with us, trust me. There's no negotiating. If you resisted you died, those were the orders. You gave up the gun or you died."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyfkQkchlu4#t=15m07s

[oldgun]

I agree that every battle must be fought both big and small. The takers of our freedoms come upon us in a time of emotion with blood on their feet and a big toothy grin asking why we can't just give up a little bit for the safety of everyone. It's complete horse shit.

[Manxdriver]

Do you REALLY care if long guns need to go through an FFL? If thats all they do, id be happy. Id live with a $20 transfer fee if I had to

What was it Franklin said about those who would give up a little freedopm for a little security? Oh yeah, they deserve neither!

[normanvin]

I suppose I'm one of the few here who agree with IntenseImage, if I'm reading him correctly that it doesn't bother him if private long gun transfers have to go through a FFL dealer. That's not infringing my right to own, purchase or use them. Could it lead to other (more extreme) measures? Of course. But he said, "if that's all they do" then he'd be happy.

Do I want that to happen? Not at all. But I would pick and choose my battles, and this one seems like small potatoes, compared to another AWB.

I think the point he's trying to make is "hey, it could be worse"

You may of read this before. This is what we are trying to prevent.

"First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a catholic.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me."

So are you gonna wait?

[WVneighbor]

... none of you are willing to give on any regulations to help appease the others.

None of them are willing to give on any regulations to help appease us.