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August 21st, 2012, 10:03 AM #21Banned
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Re: About New Jersey and Transporting/Carrying To PA
There is no real evidence that the federal law doesn't apply. If anything, federal automatically supersedes state.
Where are the people that have been charged and convicted? Are there any? Has anyone ever been charged at all for the practice of taking a handgun from NJ under federal transport laws, then CCing here?
Has that ever happened? If the answer is no, it's pretty compelling evidence that the practice is accepted by the authorities.
I agree with this position completely.Last edited by Valorius; August 21st, 2012 at 10:05 AM.
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August 21st, 2012, 10:18 AM #22Grand Member
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Re: About New Jersey and Transporting/Carrying To PA
I don't see anyone arguing that federal law can't supersede state law. I see arguments that the federal law as written and intended doesn't apply in the first place to this situation, so it doesn't supersede because it's not intended to.
Personally, I've argued in the past that under the plain and statutory definitions of "interstate travel" that FOPA should apply to anyone who is legal at the start and end of his trip as long as he crosses a state line in the process, particularly given how congress and the courts have interpreted the "interstate commerce" clause of the U. S. Constitution in the past. But tl_3237 and others may be right that a court would find differently based on the legislative history of the FOPA.Last edited by twency; August 21st, 2012 at 10:22 AM.
I am not a lawyer. Nothing I say or write is legal advice.
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August 21st, 2012, 10:30 AM #23Banned
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Re: About New Jersey and Transporting/Carrying To PA
I can see no way in which a federal transportation of firearms law designed to govern interstate travel does not apply to the interstate transportation of firearms.
The way the actual enforcement of the law has worked thus far, from all that i can find, is that if you cross the border into another state, the federal protection kicks in, and the entire trip is covered from the moment you leave your door step.
If this was not the case, there would be examples we could point to of people that have been pinched for it, and prosecuted. As far as i know, we can point to no such people, because no one has been prosecuted in such a situation. Is that correct?
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August 21st, 2012, 10:36 AM #24
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August 31st, 2012, 09:27 PM #25
Re: About New Jersey and Transporting/Carrying To PA
926A states where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm. The argument that one can lawfully possess and carry a firearm in one’s home could meet what is set in 926A. The laws of NJ apply to those carrying on business, or pleasure within the state of NJ, and this would apply to those exemptions that allow transport of firearms within the state of NJ.
Interstate travel means traveling to another state by crossing a state line, not just multiple state lines. If the intent of one is to leave the state, without any other business, or diversions while in transit, it could be argued that FOPA gives leeway for this transit if transporting a firearm. Once across state lines, the next state’s laws would have effect, if it were the destination state.
Now the kick is, NJ doesn’t have a law that prohibits transporting a firearm interstate that I’m aware.
So, if someone has really deep pockets ($100,000 +) they could set precedent.
The above statement is conjecture and not meant to be legal advice, because after I talked to an attorney about the meaning of all other legal purposes, the attorney stated, that would be a judicial opinion, and would cost a small fortune if the opinion did not favor me and I wanted to fight it. I would rather spend a small fortune on ammo and go shooting.
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September 1st, 2012, 11:20 AM #26
Re: About New Jersey and Transporting/Carrying To PA
Most everything that you have conjectured has been addressed in the sticky:
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ly-report.html
Although I agree that, until we have a judicial determination there is no conclusive disposition, the information provided in the aforementioned thread does provide compelling suggestions to the contrary of your suppositions.IANAL
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April 9th, 2014, 01:05 AM #27
Re: About New Jersey and Transporting/Carrying To PA
That's funny, a friend and I both just flew out of Atlantic City to Florida and back not too long ago. Swarm swarm swarm.....didn't happen. Not going to happen, ever.
The answer to a fool is silence.
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April 9th, 2014, 01:07 AM #28
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April 9th, 2014, 05:14 AM #29
Re: About New Jersey and Transporting/Carrying To PA
Here in the Lehigh Valley there are boatloads of people that shoot at Phillipsburg Pistol Club. If all the rhetoric and BS was true all the police would have to do is watch for Pa plates to leave the club. Bang busted, yet in the years it's been open there hasn't been one story in the news.
TS what was Nappen's opinion.
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April 9th, 2014, 03:31 PM #30
Re: About New Jersey and Transporting/Carrying To PA
Might want to check out the 3rd Circuit decision late last year which says that one cannot garner 926A protection if the firearms are removed from transporting vehicle such as when one is changing the mode of transportation including being afoot walking from the car to the airport counter and the reverse of same. When one is afoot and possesses the firearm, even if TSA standards are met, he becomes subject to the laws of the state/locality in which he is present. 926A ONLY provides protection while the firearm is properly stored continuously in a VEHICLE (assumption all other qualifications are met).
It is plain from the latter condition that the statute protects only transportation of a firearm in a vehicle, and requires that the firearm and ammunition be neither readily nor directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such vehicle. In particular, the word "such," in "such transporting vehicle," by definition refers back to earlier part(s) of the sentence, and the only parts it could possibly refer to are the parts referring to the transportation of a firearm or ammunition. The use of "such" therefore makes clear that the transportation the statute protects must occur in a "transporting vehicle."
Moreover, if there were any doubt about the statute's vehicular limitation, the final part of the sentence that follows — the "Provided" clause — again makes clear that only vehicular transportation is included in the statutory grant. It states: "Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console." 18 U.S.C. § 926A (emphasis supplied). This clause, on its face, presupposes transportation of the firearm in a vehicle.
It follows from this plain meaning that an ambulatory plaintiff who intends to transit through Newark Airport is outside the coverage of the statute.Last edited by tl_3237; April 10th, 2014 at 07:51 PM.
IANAL
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