home defense

[Philbert]

Really..
so if someone breaks into my home and i shoot them within 15 feet with a 12 gauge with a 18.5 barrel... with birdshot.. they will laugh at me??

Why because I don't have BIGGER but LESS pellets coming out of my barrel??
Also I have found target or bird shot tends to shoot better groups anyways(meaning the load stays together for a longer distance)

Find me a story ANYWHERE, where someone laughs after being hit at that range with birdshot.... out of a 12 gauge..and not to mention...

Does everyone think they are only going to have like 1 shell in their HD weapon???? sure.. maybe if it was a single shot I would load up buck shot.

I have 7+1... if someone survives...and can even move or be recognized after 8 rounds of birdshot from 15 feet..

I would shake their hand and give them whatever the fuck they wanted..because clearly i must be fighting the Terminator.

I really think most of you guys need to give birdshot a second look.. buckshot if good if your not going to look and just spray and pray within 15 feet, but horrible for accuracy, percision or whatever ESPECIALLY inside your house..

If I let my 12 gauge off in my apartment WITH BUCKSHOT.. My last problem is going to be if i hit the guy or not. i know im going to hit him.. Along with my 60 inch sony bravia, my entertainment center, my 25 gallon fish tank.. we should be practicing more on precision and accuracy instead of what round we are using.

Remeber with buckshot it's only 6-9 balls (about the size of a 38cal.) so that's not very good chances of a hit... Especially after 15 feet. i can ring 3 or 4 rounds off with birdshot and know FULL WELL almost all of the pellets will stick into the drywall..not go through and hit god knows what... maybe not the side im shooting on.. but atleast not punch through the other side.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

http://forum.pafoa.org/shotguns-43/1...se-page-2.html

[gumbys1up]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

http://forum.pafoa.org/shotguns-43/1...se-page-2.html

I am impressed by these.. but I still stand by my desicion.. I don't plan on shooting once. I plan on shooting until the threat stops.. 7 rounds of birdshot will and has killed MANY a bad guy.

I appreciate that link though and reccomend everyone on here to read it. I learned alot from it and it's very in depth.

[WWGunslinger]

Really..
so if someone breaks into my home and i shoot them within 15 feet with a 12 gauge with a 18.5 barrel... with birdshot.. they will laugh at me??

Why because I don't have BIGGER but LESS pellets coming out of my barrel??
Also I have found target or bird shot tends to shoot better groups anyways(meaning the load stays together for a longer distance)

Find me a story ANYWHERE, where someone laughs after being hit at that range with birdshot.... out of a 12 gauge..and not to mention...

Does everyone think they are only going to have like 1 shell in their HD weapon???? sure.. maybe if it was a single shot I would load up buck shot.

I have 7+1... if someone survives...and can even move or be recognized after 8 rounds of birdshot from 15 feet..

I would shake their hand and give them whatever the fuck they wanted..because clearly i must be fighting the Terminator.

I really think most of you guys need to give birdshot a second look.. buckshot if good if your not going to look and just spray and pray within 15 feet, but horrible for accuracy, percision or whatever ESPECIALLY inside your house..

If I let my 12 gauge off in my apartment WITH BUCKSHOT.. My last problem is going to be if i hit the guy or not. i know im going to hit him.. Along with my 60 inch sony bravia, my entertainment center, my 25 gallon fish tank.. we should be practicing more on precision and accuracy instead of what round we are using.

Remeber with buckshot it's only 6-9 balls (about the size of a 38cal.) so that's not very good chances of a hit... Especially after 15 feet. i can ring 3 or 4 rounds off with birdshot and know FULL WELL almost all of the pellets will stick into the drywall..not go through and hit god knows what... maybe not the side im shooting on.. but atleast not punch through the other side.

I hate to say it, but have you actually shot buckshot? I just bought a 12 Ga 18.5" barreled shotgun this week. Today I took it out along with human size silhouettes and 00 buckshot. I shot 5 shots at the target at 5 yards (15'). Every single shot landed in the CoM square. Even at 10 yards, almost all pellets hit the body with maybe 2 pellets missing the body by maybe an 1 inch.

Spread on buckshot isn't large at those ranges.

[Michele]

I have both birdshot and 00 buck in the house. My shotty is loaded with 00 buck for home defense.

Okay, so please someone enlighten me (i'm kinda new to the shotty stuff ). Wouldn't the choke play a big part in which shell you would be using?

For trap I have a skeet choke. For 00 buck home defense I have a full choke. Should I be using different shot or different chokes?

Right now my shotty is 28'. I still haven't gotten my lazy ass off to the store to get the shorty barrel.

[ByAnyMeans]

Michele, the choke should not really impact what shell you use but rather what your task would be. (slugs are an exception)
The chokes on a shotgun can get confusing but I have always been told not to worry about chokes on a home defense shotgun. The pattern does not open up much at all in a normal defensive situation distance. They can help keep it tighter a little past the usual 30 yards that a 00 buck round is good to but you have to ask yourself if your shooting at people over thirty yards away 1) Is it legal 2) does this situation call for a rifle with large magazine.
I would keep the skeet choke for your long barrel and when you get a short defensive barrel go for no choke. Others will undoubedly have different opinions so investigate for yourself.

[Hawk]

Over penetration and collateral damage is secondary to stopping the threat as fast and as complete as you can. To me that means the biggest "hammer" I can operate effectively.

If you can stop the threat with less rounds, it means you have less of a chance of collateral damage than with multiple rounds.

1. Buck has more stopping power in a single shot than bird in multiple shots.
2. If both bird and buck penetrate Sheetrock why not use the stopping power of buck?
3. I've seen bird shot wounds inflicted at less than a few feet, it's mostly superficial (little penetration), especially through clothing.
4. Buck shot penetrates to at least 10-13 inches, which means it has a better chance to hit vital organs, which equals stopping power.
5. Bird shot is a few hundred small bb's that loose their energy very fast. OO buck is 8-9 32 call balls. Which would you rather get shot with?
6. As for shot spread, with a full choke, it's approx 1" spread for every 1 yard traveled (regardless of shot size). This means at 10 yards the spread would be 10 inches.

If the intruder is armed or if their are multiple intruders (armed), do you want to screw around with a less than effective round like bird shot or do you want to take the bad guys out quick and hard?

[lilb93]

i have my kimber .45 for hd i did have a shotgun but after playing a bit around the house with it it is much easier to use a pistol... opening doors, light switches, moving childrens toys... and i'm sure if there is that big of a goings on in the home my 3 year old will be out hanging on my leg... it would just be easier to hold on to her/ put her in a room away and close the door and keep someone at bay with a pistol....


now if i'm home alone i'm reaching for my socom II beta mag, and my NV. the light switches will be going OFF not on and the doors will be closing and i pity who is inside.... i'll cut the damn house in half if i have to...

[Justin]

1 oz Slugs all the way. It does have small added benefit of some barrier penetration if needed.

I don't know why anyone even continues this whole bird shot debate. Proponents of it are generally not going to change their mind. They want to use something made to kill a sub 2lb animal(or a hunk of clay), and insist that it will work on BGs even if the BG is wearing armor and carrying a weapon of their own. If one wants to gamble with that, then by all means, it's your own life, go for it. I'd like to see you try to use your 7 1/2 shot on a big game animal(even a deer) and get back to me on it's stopping power.

That was my first and assuredly my last post on the internet ever about birdshot vs. buck/rifle/handgun/whatever.

[Hawk]

i have my kimber .45 for hd i did have a shotgun but after playing a bit around the house with it it is much easier to use a pistol... opening doors, light switches, moving childrens toys... and i'm sure if there is that big of a goings on in the home my 3 year old will be out hanging on my leg... it would just be easier to hold on to her/ put her in a room away and close the door and keep someone at bay with a pistol....


now if i'm home alone i'm reaching for my socom II beta mag, and my NV. the light switches will be going OFF not on and the doors will be closing and i pity who is inside.... i'll cut the damn house in half if i have to...

No doubt if you are going to take the chance of clearing your own house, a handgun is a better choice. If you're going to hunker down and wait for the bad guys and the police to show...shotgun!

[Michele]

Thank you gentlemen for your opinions.

I'm not at all concerned about wall penetration. My house is 150 years old and has concrete and stone walls with all kinds of other stuff mixed in. I'm pretty sure that whatever is outside the house is pretty safe no matter what type of projectile I will use. And truthfully, in a home SHTF situation, I wouldn't care what my walls looked like after, they can be repaired.

I live by myself (with 1 dog) so securing any family members is a non issue.

Both my handguns are always ready, so is my AR with 30 rounds.

I had a bit of a situation a while back, woken up from a sound sleep, and I reacted in a split second (turned out to be something that would give you a true belly laugh) and grabbed the shotty. I'm guessing from everything that I've heard/read, I became somewhat conditioned and went for the shotty first.

I do want to make sure that no matter what firearm I'm going to trust my life to for HD, its going to get the job done with only one shot.

Again, thank you gentlemen!