'Run the Serial Number...'

[soberbyker]

LOL...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45510972...h_and_gadgets/

Funny, I'm watching the movie "Enemy of the State", some of the comments in this (and a couple others) thread immediately came to mind.
.

[bob308]

lets think of this from a dirrerent angle.

your house is broken into your handguns are stolen. a year later a cop stops some one. finds they are armed. he runs the numbers and it comes back stolen.

would you refuse the handguns retrun because you think he violated the other persons rights???

[PAOhio]

lets think of this from a dirrerent angle.

your house is broken into your handguns are stolen. a year later a cop stops some one. finds they are armed. he runs the numbers and it comes back stolen.

would you refuse the handguns retrun because you think he violated the other persons rights???

Apples and oranges. If he stopped a guy for doing nothing wrong and blind lucked into finding a stolen gun, while wildly improbable, I'd still he peeved. How the hell would I know the circumstances anyway? What's he gonna do, just brag about it? 'Dude, I stopped this guy for 'driving while black' and we foundorz yer gunz! Woot!'

Or he ran the serial after taking it off a guy that just ran over a little old lady, a fire hydrant, and three flower beds? Why wouldn't I want my stolen property back while found in the course of a lawful investigation? Derp.

[Steve in PA]

No LEO can just arbitrarily run Tags, DL #'s, LTCF, or any other thing just because. There has to be a valid legal reason for an officer to take action.

CL

Wrong. There are numerous case laws on this subject. The courts have ruled there is no right to privacy or 4th Amendment violations for randomly running someones registration plate. This is because they are in plain view and outside. As long as the officer had a legal right to be where he observed the registration plate, there is no issue.

You can look up the following cases for further proof.

“Every court that has addressed this issue has reached the same conclusion. The Tenth Circuit has held on two occasions that license plates are “in plain view on the outside of the car” and thus, are “subject to seizure” because there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. United States v. Matthews, 615 F.2d 1279, 1285 (10th Cir. 1980); see also United States v. Walraven, 892 F.2d 972, 974 (10th Cir. 1989). The Fifth Circuit has also held that “[a] motorist has no privacy interest in her license plate number.” Olabisiomotosho v. City of Houston, 185 F.3d 521, 529 (5th Cir. 1999); accord United States v. Sparks, 37 Fed. Appx. 826, 829 (8th Cir. 2002); Hallstein v. City of Hermosa Beach, 87 Fed. Appx. 17, 19 (9th Cir. 2003). The only two panels of this court to address the question have reached the same result. United States v. $14,000.00 in U.S. Currency, 2000 U.S. App. LEXIS 2429, No. 98-4380, 2000 WL 222587, at *3 (6th Cir. Feb. 14, 2000) (finding no Fourth Amendment violation in a computer check of a license plate); United States v. Batten, 73 Fed. Appx. 831, 832 (6th Cir. 2003) (same). As one panel wrote, “[T]here is no case law indicating that there can be any reasonable expectation of privacy in license plates which are required by law to be displayed in public on the front and rear of any vehicle on a public street.” Batten, 73 Fed. Appx. at 832; see also Wayne R. LaFave, 1 Search & Seizure § 2.5(b) (4th ed. 2004) (“[I]t is apparent that when a vehicle is parked on the street or in a lot or at some other location where it is readily subject to observation by members of the public, it is no search for the police to look at the exterior of the vehicle.”) (citing Katz and Olabisiomotosho ).

[Steve in PA]

You know what, I might be wrong as we are speaking about Pennsylvania. I was a cop in Georgia. In Georgia, an officer must have legal standing to run a tag. You just can't be behind someone and run the tag. There has to be legal justification. Otherwise, we would have Johnny Law running the tag of hot chicks, handing around their house to try and get laid.

It violates the rules for NCIC, National Crime Information Center. Now, I don't know what PA law is but since they use NCIC, I am assuming to get certified to have a computer to do LE work, they have to comply with NCIC rules, regs, and legal requirements. In GA, it was a felony for a public official to use gov computers for just any ole reason. There had to be a valid, legal standing reason. Traffic violation, part of an ongoing document investigation etc...not just because I was following you and I read a bumper sticker I didn't like or the hot chick driving the car.
In fact, vehicles left over night in parking lots could not be run. You could write down the info but couldn't run the tag because the car was just there.
I'll also state that I haven't been in LE for a number of years and things change. So, I just might be talking out my ass at this point.
Make sense?

CL

Case law does not support your statement.

[ray h]

I have no doubt that LEOs can legally run your license plate through NCIC or PennDot, but here's my question, So he runs your plate which will come back with a name of the owner, then what can he do with the name and what information will come back with that name? Can he legally run that name through NCIC? Your license plate is public information but is your identity?

[PhilB]

Your license plate is public information but is your identity?

To a large extent, yes, like it or not.

Think how much junk mail you get. Where does your name and address come from for all that? I get advertisements in my son's name because his school district sold a list of students to someone selling yearbooks and class rings. My son lives in another state. If you own a car, own a home, have a telephone, subscribe to a magazine, buy something by mail, fill out a form to receive information from a vendor, you'll find yourself on someone's contact list, and that someone will be unknown to you.

You have the option of preventing the sale or release of any information from entities you contact or do business with, but the default condition is they will release that information unless you specifically tell them not to. It should be the other way around, but that's not the way the regulations have been written.

Sorry for the rant; this is a huge right-to-privacy thing with me. Don't get me started on data-mining.

--Phil

[TaePo]

Currently, my main carry is my father's Ruger Security Six (R.I.P.). What is interesting about this revolver is the serial number is located under the hand grip.

An officer would have to remove the grips to read the s/n., unless there is another smaller one somewhere which I really haven't looked very hard for one like on the edge of the barrel.

When I first took posssession of the firearm I called Ruger to verify it had a s/n and was covered by the grips. We did not discuss any other s/n in a more easily read spot, either.

So I wonder what would happen if I did not mention the grips. Would I be arrested for removing the s/n since they couldn't find them right away?

[ray h]

Currently, my main carry is my father's Ruger Security Six (R.I.P.). What is interesting about this revolver is the serial number is located under the hand grip.

An officer would have to remove the grips to read the s/n., unless there is another smaller one somewhere which I really haven't looked very hard for one like on the edge of the barrel.

When I first took posssession of the firearm I called Ruger to verify it had a s/n and was covered by the grips. We did not discuss any other s/n in a more easily read spot, either.

So I wonder what would happen if I did not mention the grips. Would I be arrested for removing the s/n since they couldn't find them right away?

I guess you (or I ) could be arrested for anything. We really have no legal option but to just comply with whatever the officer feels like doing and then fight it out in court at a later date. Its a very helpless feeling.

[Valorius]

I guess you (or I ) could be arrested for anything. We really have no legal option but to just comply with whatever the officer feels like doing and then fight it out in court at a later date. Its a very helpless feeling.

At the same time, if you know how to talk to people, and cops specifically...you'd be amazed at what you can get away with even if you get caught redhanded.

Real world example: The serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer got caught practically red handed when one of his victims (an Asian man IIRC) escaped- butt ass naked- and ran to passing cops for help. Dahmer convinced the popo that the kid was just upset, and was his lover.

The cops actually handed the kid back over to Dahmer...who subsequently murdered and cannibalized the victim.