Man has gun fall from his belt

**NineseveN** · November 13th, 2007, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by markheck1

Well...the way I see it....if you had good reason to believe that he was over the limit, and you gave him the keys, you helped him commit a crime. As far as held as liable as the driver....I don;t know if I would go that far....

this is different than the negligent loss of the firearm....because this was not purposely done.

Mistakes do happen....so far no one was hurt, and I hope no one ever does....but it does make you think...what is the turning point to Criminal Negligence?

This was a bad analogy from the start, let's fix it.

You go out for lunch and leave your keys on the table at your favorite diner. You realize your keys are gone at some point later on, but you don't remember where you left them exactly. Someone comes along and finds your keys when they sit down at that same table after you’ve left. After they have a 6 or 7 pints for lunch, they use your keys to steal your car and end up killing someone. Or perhaps they didn't drink; perhaps they found the keys, took your car and hit their ex-wife with it, killing her in an act of vehicular homicide.

A gun is a piece of property, no different than your car, your keys, your wallet, a knife, cell phone or whatever. It does not cause harm all by itself (just like everything else I mentioned). A reasonable person can be expected to lose or misplace their property at times, even very expensive or important property. It's not plutonium or anthrax, I make no distinction between a gun and any other piece of inanimate property. A firearm is not dangerous, not even a little bit, if it is not made to fire by a person. A lost gun in and of itself is not dangerous, neither is a found gun, not until someone comes along and misuses it (through accident, negligence or malice). The blame falls upon the person that causes the damage to be done with the gun.

**markheck1** · November 13th, 2007, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by NineseveN

This was a bad analogy from the start, let's fix it.

You go out for lunch and leave your keys on the table at your favorite diner. You realize your keys are gone at some point later on, but you don't remember where you left them exactly. Someone comes along and finds your keys when they sit down at that same table after you’ve left. After they have a 6 or 7 pints for lunch, they use your keys to steal your car and end up killing someone. Or perhaps they didn't drink; perhaps they found the keys, took your car and hit their ex-wife with it, killing her in an act of vehicular homicide.

A gun is a piece of property, no different than your car, your keys, your wallet, a knife, cell phone or whatever. It does not cause harm all by itself (just like everything else I mentioned). A reasonable person can be expected to lose or misplace their property at times, even very expensive or important property. It's not plutonium or anthrax, I make no distinction between a gun and any other piece of inanimate property. A firearm is not dangerous, not even a little bit, if it is not made to fire by a person. A lost gun in and of itself is not dangerous, neither is a found gun, not until someone comes along and misuses it (through accident, negligence or malice). The blame falls upon the person that causes the damage to be done with the gun.

Much better...however....not to nitpick...but isn't plutonium inanimate?

the only thing that leans me toward possible Negligence, is the possibilty of a child picking this up and hurting themselves. Even then, it's not a direct or intended result of the guy losing his gun.... big grey area...should make for good discussion

**NineseveN** · November 13th, 2007, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by markheck1

....not to nitpick...but isn't plutonium inanimate?

You would know that, wouldn't you?

**markheck1** · November 13th, 2007, 12:38 PM

The analogy that seems to work the best for me when dealing with guns, is baseball bats.....no one NEEDS a baseball bat that is not on a baseball team, and the team usually provides one. (IE no-one needs a gun unless they are a cop) But you may not like them, and want a different one....even for pickup games....it's just a tool... and it will kill just as fast as a gun.... the only thing that a gun has on a bat is range.....

Banning all privately owned guns is just as asinine as banning all privately owned baseball bats would be

Sorry small tangent there.....but point is would a person be liable for the beating of another with his lost baseball Bat?

**MOUNTAINORACLE** · November 13th, 2007, 12:39 PM

I DO NOT believe that the individual who lost this firearm should really be held accountable. I made that statement to try to gather some information.
The only thing that the individual is guilty of is a bad case of stupids and lack of common sense.
I was trying to figure out is at what point does a person become responsible for his actions or lack of action.
If someone has an AD is he responsible for the bullet as it was an accident?
This was the direction I hoped this post would have taken.

oracle