US has been planning for the collapse of Mexican Govt for over 1 year

[PocketProtector]

Allowing refugees who are fleeing the collapse of Mexico an illegal voting block?

So long as they are treated as refugees and not offered citizenship I'm okay with welcoming them.

No no no.....remember the O & Rahm way, create a crisis and then take advantage of it. This will be a catalyst for the left to create the necessity of giving amnesty to those already here and open the floodgates for more. Just like bailout, it will "HAVE TO BE DONE".

[gnbrotz]

Im not suggesting we legalize crack , meth , heroin , etc .

Why not? The same arguments you make to support pot legalization apply to other drugs as well.

I also think it's hypocritical that some who suggest the government "butt out" of what substances they put in their body are so quick to suggest government regulation and taxation of that very same product. That would tend to suggest they aren't really concerned about individual freedom, but merely avoiding prosecution.

[LittleRedToyota]

IBut as far as the legalizing pot issue, why does everyone think that legalization of marijuana will end the drug war?

i don't think it would. i think you have to legalize all drugs to completely end the drug black market and all the problems that black market brings with it.

however, from some of the stats i have seen, the mexican cartels make something like 60% to 80% of their revenue from trafficking marijuana. so, just legalizing marijuana, in and of itself, would certainly take a huge bite out of their revenues and, thus, greatly hamper their operations.

(of course, statistics about black markets do need to be taken with a grain of salt. it is hard to accurately say how big a black market is because you only know about the stuff that gets caught...and have to estimate what percentage you are catching.)

[PocketProtector]

Why not? The same arguments you make to support pot legalization apply to other drugs as well.

I also think it's hypocritical that some who suggest the government "butt out" of what substances they put in their body are so quick to suggest government regulation and taxation of that very same product. That would tend to suggest they aren't really concerned about individual freedom, but merely avoiding prosecution.

Doesn't seem like too many sheeple are concerned about individual freedom these days...just handouts.

[RoyJackson]

I wouldn't be surprised, there are plans for almost everything in the government. Mexico's government collapsing is a VERY reasonable thing to plan for--as is a Canadian collapse. However, the writing is on the wall for Mexico...not so much Canada. Maybe that's what these fema camps are about?

But as far as the legalizing pot issue, why does everyone think that legalization of marijuana will end the drug war?
camper

Mexico has been on the brink for a very very long time. The culture of corruption throughout that society is not going away...and, we're not going to fix it.
So, I'm one of the "build the f'king wall NOW" guys.

As far as the drug war, legalizing pot won't end it, but could focus efforts toward the harder drugs. However, I see no lessening of the violence unless drugs are legalized across the board. The appetite for cocaine, heroin and other substances is just too high for any chance of success.
This war cannot be won though.
And, of course, where does the government get off on telling people what they cannot ingest, as long as it's not endangering others? That's rhetorical question, so don't respond.
This argument has been on PAFOA on more then one occasion, so I'm not going to rehash it here.

[camper]

Im not suggesting we legalize crack , meth , heroin , etc . What I am suggesting is if we legalized pot , and treated it just like alcohol ; minimum age 21 , regulated potency , DUI charges , etc and taxed it like tobacco we would make a HUGE difference in both the violent crime rates AND the Fed deficit . , Freud was once quoted as saying " the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result " , that sums up exactly what our policy towards drugs has been since the 70's . We tried it for 30 years , it hasnt worked , and its far past the time to try something else .

While I don't disagree crime will go down, I just don't think it will eliminate the drug war like so many people seem to believe. There will still be cocaine. There will still be crack. There will still be heroin, meth, LSD, etc. Those are the high dollar drugs, and that is the major portion of the drug 'battle'. Even with legalization in other countries, they STILL have a big drug problem outside marijuna. Legalizing pot did NOT solve or end it--it is still a violent and deadly trade which continues to sap resources and lives.

I'm also of the opinion (and I really think I'm right on this) that the tax revenue from marijuana will not see any benefit to the country because it will be put immediately back into the war on the other drugs...which will grow larger to stop the other 'hard' drugs. There will no doubt be new businesses which will spring up, but they'll be just like any other specialty shop.

Personally I don't think legalizing pot is a good idea from an economic, social, and moral standpoint, but I think it's something that should be up to the states to decide and when it become legal (at some point it will) it should be regulated and taxed just like anything else...but not to the point of rediculousness like other things are.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out in places where smoking is essentially illegal though, I suspect a lot of those ordinences will have to overturned in order to have a 'smoke bar' type environment. A pot shop will have to sell food, afterall, and that is the criteria for banning smoking in bars. If a pot shop is OK'd because people are knowingly going into them aware of what will be there, why would a bar be required to be non-smoking if the same "smoking is allowed here" rule is in place?

camper

[son of the revolution]

Why not? The same arguments you make to support pot legalization apply to other drugs as well.

I also think it's hypocritical that some who suggest the government "butt out" of what substances they put in their body are so quick to suggest government regulation and taxation of that very same product. That would tend to suggest they aren't really concerned about individual freedom, but merely avoiding prosecution.

Not at all . My personal opinion is I dont really care if someone wants to jab a vein , snort a line or anything else . Im looking at it strictly from the viewpoint of whats politically practical and acceptable to voters . Im thinking incrementally here . It's really not that much different from what everyone here is trying to do by OC'ing , in order to desensitize the public to the sight and get them to realize that legal gun owners are not to be feared .

Right now , pot is particularly positioned to be the most " acceptable " of currently illegal drugs . I think its something like 85 percent of ALL Americans have tried pot at some point in their lives .

Im sorry you feel that regulation and taxation is "hypocitical " to the view of Govt staying out of personal morality . Again Im looking at it from what methods make the idea attractive enough to the general public AND the Govt , in order to make it a reality . Any utopia , be it " our " vision of a Libertarian Ideal as close to the intent of the Founders as possible OR the polar opposite , ultimate Liberal Socialist State is simply a folly of over active imagination . There will always need to be some sort of minimalist limitations in order to appeal to the masses to support XYZ issue .

[phillyd2]

Why not? The same arguments you make to support pot legalization apply to other drugs as well.

I also think it's hypocritical that some who suggest the government "butt out" of what substances they put in their body are so quick to suggest government regulation and taxation of that very same product. That would tend to suggest they aren't really concerned about individual freedom, but merely avoiding prosecution.

huh? how in the world is a sales tax against individual freedom?

[phillyd2]

I don't agree that these refugees would be in anything like the WWII internment camps or that they should be repelled from coming into the country. If they are refugees trying to escape a narco-state the right thing to do would be to set up refugee camps and providing security along our border so that there is nobody following them. Screen them for contraband as they come across and monitor the camp so they can't slip out, but we would NEED to do something to support them.

Too soon to agree with you?

[Elmar]

For our sake, for their sake, for the sake of all the children growing up from here to Bolivia we should legalize drugs. The costs of keeping them illegal is far far higher than any cost to society of them being legal. Very very few people would choose to take drugs were them simply made legal the people who take drugs now don't seem to care about the law because they don't care about themselves to care about what happens to them - it is why they escape with drugs in the first place.

It is nothing, NOTHING but folly to assume any government has the authority to say "You cannot do with yourself as you wish".