What's your opinion on this gun range quandary?

[Autonomous]

I think both sides were a little "wrong" (or whatever you want to call it).

The guy calls "clear" without explaining to strangers (to him) on the range what he means -- and him not knowing if they know.

You think he means engage safety and don't touch the weapon. He means "clear the weapon" (hence calling "clear").

Instead of giving you a lecture, he could have simply said something like "hey guys, I should have checked with you to make sure you know what 'clear' means but for future reference, when folks are going to be down range, unload and action open, as in 'clear' your weapons and show 'clear' . . . ."

There's no downside to educating fellow gun owners and education doesn't mean lecture.

Everybody stay safe and have fun.

Im with Philadelphia on this one. I am a relitivly young guy. I am also relitivly new to the wide world of shooting. Very early on I learned that I have to look out for MY safty. So I have left ranges that were populated by less than safe shooters on more than one occation (often after driving 45 min to shoot). I have also had a few "this is my understanding of safety" talks with fellow shooters at a range. Often I get the impretion they are all WTF but honestly I realy dont give a shit what they think. If the shooters are older than me I tend to voice my concerns in the form of a question "Sir when you call clear that means unloaded right?" You have to put up with a breif lecture on safety but I belive it is good to hear about safety over and over again.

I strongly second (or is it third???) the suggestion that you take a range safety class.
Welcome to the forum...
-A

[markheck1]

IMO...and again this is my opinion only, since the range was not crowded at the time, you should have asked the guy if you could shoot the mag you had loaded, before going down range.....It all depends on how he called clear too......If you call clear....turn and walk down the range right after I just loaded a gun....and don't give me enough time to unload it, you are going to hear a big 'HEY DUMBASS" from me....Now, I am just guessing what happened here....but I am thinking it was a little bit of both parties.....Now if he patiently waited for you you to clear, and all you did was flick the safety on, and tell him it was ok, then it's your bad, dude

[BearTitan]

I think both sides were a little "wrong" (or whatever you want to call it).

The guy calls "clear" without explaining to strangers (to him) on the range what he means -- and him not knowing if they know.

You think he means engage safety and don't touch the weapon. He means "clear the weapon" (hence calling "clear").

Instead of giving you a lecture, he could have simply said something like "hey guys, I should have checked with you to make sure you know what 'clear' means but for future reference, when folks are going to be down range, unload and action open, as in 'clear' your weapons and show 'clear' . . . ."

There's no downside to educating fellow gun owners and education doesn't mean lecture.

Everybody stay safe and have fun.

I think that shooters have a responsibility to learn some range etiquette prior to stepping foot onto a range. This sport does not suffer fools. It is no one's responsibility but the shooter, to act safely. There is 0 margin for error here. If you don't know the rules either learn them, bring someone with you who knows them, or stay home. Personally, I would prefer you did one of the first two, but if you are unable or unwilling to learn the proper rules, then stay home.

IMO...and again this is my opinion only, since the range was not crowded at the time, you should have asked the guy if you could shoot the mag you had loaded, before going down range.....It all depends on how he called clear too......If you call clear....turn and walk down the range right after I just loaded a gun....and don't give me enough time to unload it, you are going to hear a big 'HEY DUMBASS" from me....Now, I am just guessing what happened here....but I am thinking it was a little bit of both parties.....Now if he patiently waited for you you to clear, and all you did was flick the safety on, and tell him it was ok, then it's your bad, dude

I agree, Mark. It would not have been poor etiquette for the OP to indicate that he was going to run through his mag to clear the firearm. If there was a reason why he couldn't do that, then the responsibility would have been on the other shooters to make sure that he knew that.

[Philadelphia]

I think that shooters have a responsibility to learn some range etiquette prior to stepping foot onto a range. This sport does not suffer fools. It is no one's responsibility but the shooter, to act safely. There is 0 margin for error here. If you don't know the rules either learn them, bring someone with you who knows them, or stay home. Personally, I would prefer you did one of the first two, but if you are unable or unwilling to learn the proper rules, then stay home.

You're right, of course, but when (not if) you run into people on the range who don't share that understanding, you have a choice of yelling at them and lecturing them, or checking in ahead of time with what they know and educating them before walking down range (and if they don't take graciously to wisdom graciously provided, maybe ask them to leave).

I give an example. At every IDPA match, instructions include, every single time for every single shooter, "unload, show clear, hammer down, holster." It's not that anyone thinks everyone doesn't know exactly what they're expected to do, it's that's the way things are done -- no misunderstandings and no mistakes. We don't just say "clear" and head down range to score and paste targets, even when every single shooter is well known and well experienced. Similarly, maybe well thought out range instructions should try to ensure there can be no misunderstanding as to what is expected -- "unload, actions open, weapons on bench, if you're not stepping onto the range step back from the bench, no touching of weapons until the range is called hot." Look around and assure yourself that the range has been made safe before taking a single step down range. If it's not safe, now's the time you can explain to folks exactly what's expected.

I'm not trying to argue with you. Like I said I actually agree with you. Just sort of looking at reality and recognizing that most of us don't really get to choose who is at a range with us, but we do get to choose how to interact with them, evaluate whether they are safe, and deal with making sure everyone is on the same page before anyone is placed at risk.

Spending too much time thinking about this. Is the horse dead yet?

[ARShuter]

When I'm at a public range I've go as far as walking up and down the line to make sure all are safe. Call me anal but I've often said " I can't believe more poeple don't get killed in hunting season in Pennsylvania." I am a gunsmith and see things you'd never believe.

[BearTitan]

You're right, of course, but when (not if) you run into people on the range who don't share that understanding, you have a choice of yelling at them and lecturing them, or checking in ahead of time with what they know and educating them before walking down range (and if they don't take graciously to wisdom graciously provided, maybe ask them to leave).

I give an example. At every IDPA match, instructions include, every single time for every single shooter, "unload, show clear, hammer down, holster." It's not that anyone thinks everyone doesn't know exactly what they're expected to do, it's that's the way things are done -- no misunderstandings and no mistakes. We don't just say "clear" and head down range to score and paste targets, even when every single shooter is well known and well experienced. Similarly, maybe well thought out range instructions should try to ensure there can be no misunderstanding as to what is expected -- "unload, actions open, weapons on bench, if you're not stepping onto the range step back from the bench, no touching of weapons until the range is called hot." Look around and assure yourself that the range has been made safe before taking a single step down range. If it's not safe, now's the time you can explain to folks exactly what's expected.

I'm not trying to argue with you. Like I said I actually agree with you. Just sort of looking at reality and recognizing that most of us don't really get to choose who is at a range with us, but we do get to choose how to interact with them, evaluate whether they are safe, and deal with making sure everyone is on the same page before anyone is placed at risk.

Spending too much time thinking about this. Is the horse dead yet?

Nahh, the horse is still alive and kicking. Good discussion.

Your IDPA example is a good one (I RO frequently at USPSA shoots), however you and I have volunteered to provide that instruction. The average Vlad doesn't go to the game commission range with the intention of teaching others.

I agree that, if the OP account is correct, that the yelling was inappropriate. Now, if the firearm had been "in hand" that would be a different story. A guy on my range swept my son with his pistol once..........once.

[britisharmy]

I always call clear and wait until all shooters on the range have called back "clear" before going downrange.
I dont expect everyone to quickly clear their weapons just because I want to go downrange, also if someone is at the firing line I wait till they have stopped shooting before I call clear.
I have explained to some other shooters how it works so they can help keep the range safe, after all it is what someone taught me when I first went there.

[TaePo]

I always call clear and wait until all shooters on the range have called back "clear" before going downrange.
I dont expect everyone to quickly clear their weapons just because I want to go downrange, also if someone is at the firing line I wait till they have stopped shooting before I call clear.
I have explained to some other shooters how it works so they can help keep the range safe, after all it is what someone taught me when I first went there.

This is what I do also. Someone may just be lining up their targets when I call clear. So if someone does not call clear, we all wait until their shots are done and hopefully they call clear and we all call clear again. I always look around after calling clear. If only a couple of people there, it is pretty easy to figure everyone's routines.

Second to safety, I am former Army and would never leave a weapon on rocked and ready for some enemy to pick up and shoot me with. Dead is dead, but I would prefer it not be my own weapon! So consider that possibility as well.

[Ed111PA]

I always call clear and wait until all shooters on the range have called back "clear" before going downrange.
I dont expect everyone to quickly clear their weapons just because I want to go downrange, also if someone is at the firing line I wait till they have stopped shooting before I call clear.
I have explained to some other shooters how it works so they can help keep the range safe, after all it is what someone taught me when I first went there.

I second this, along with "clear" being exactly that - a clear firearm.

Does anyone have a list of rules/etiquette that could be given to people at SGL's (or other places) that is an easy read and is not 'offensive' in any way?

[blendingnoise]

I am speaking from the point of view of someone new to this sport and have only been in it for 2 months and still soaking up new information each day.

For someone whose family has never shown them a gun or have had very limited experiences when young which just consisted of being told to pull the trigger and see how loud the gun went boom there is a TON out there you do not know.

I for one did not know that a SAFETY is not SAFE at all. I made the same mistake as the OP when I flicked it on when someone called clear while watching me shoot my mag. I laid the gun down and yelled clear back only to watch the old guy make a motion with his hand that indicated to open my bolt. I mean they call it a safety right? My thinking is now why would I even need a safety when the ONLY true safe is a CLEAR CHAMBER and finger OFF THE TRIGGER and GUN.

I go home and read about the reliability of safety's as something that seemed to be common sense is not really good common sense in the end. I read about grip safeties failing and getting stuck, other safeties no engaging. I understand more now. All this was because the old guy walked over to me as we walked downrange and told me about this stuff. He never once yelled at me nor did he call me an idiot. If he had called me an idiot I might not have learnt a damn thing he had to say cause of my contempt for him.

I returned the favour to another shooter yesterday who just bought a 357 pistol and was shooting for the first time. He only went with his brother in law earlier. His grip was really weird for a revolver and he had his strong side foot in front and was swaying a lot. He had also loaded his cylinder full when the range is 3 in the mag only. I just sidled up to the lane next to him and asked what he was shooting and mentioned that I was new too. I asked why he used his particular stance and he said he had no preference and was just trying to get a feel for the gun. I mentioned some of the basics I had learnt in the last week of shooting my pistol such as stance, focus on front sight, trigger pull.

Then another older guy came over and started being friendly and asking and helping us both out which led to us killing an hour on the range just asking questions and chatting on a nice day instead of only shooting and reinforcing bad habits.

Some people don't take instruction well and in that case sure walk away. You will never know if they do or not if you do not approach them. As a new shooter it is very intimidating at the range because you really don't want to fuck up with something that can kill you or take chunks of flesh out of people. Did I mention it was intimidating?

Yelling and muttering "idiots" (maybe even leaving without saying why) does nothing to help a situation. Why would you want to go about life doing nothing to help the situation when you have the ability to do so?