Arkansas pastors debate over carry in chuch

[etenp99]

Not in PA but good read none the less. See parts highlighted in blue.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,493010,00.html

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — Arkansas pastors may soon have to worry about more than their flocks' spiritual battles. After a number of shootings in churches nationwide, should congregants be allowed to bring concealed weapons into their sanctuaries?

Under current Arkansas law, holders of concealed weapons permits can take their guns anywhere they want except bars and houses of worship. A bill in the state Senate would let churches decide for themselves whether weapons should be allowed.

"I believe it would disturb the sanctity and tranquility of church" said Pastor John Phillips, a bill opponent who was shot twice in the back as he finished a service 23 years ago. If a church opts out, "Do you want ushers to stop you at the door and frisk you?"

The bill's supporters say the issue isn't gun rights but a constitutionally protected right for churches to set their own rules. Opponents say worshippers should be allowed to pray without worrying whether the person next to them is armed.

Nathan Petty, a pastor at Beech Grove Baptist Church in Fordyce, has presented to legislators a petition from 40 preachers who support the bill.

"It's not about gun rights, it's about church rights," Petty said. "Is it right for the state to make that decision for the church?"

Phillips said there could have been carnage at his Ward Chapel Church in Little Rock if someone else had been armed when he was attacked by a parishioner's relative for a still-unknown reason.

"People are not going to react the way they think they're going to react in the heat of the moment. It was utter chaos when I was shot," said Phillips, who still carries one of the bullets in his body.

The bill, by Republican Rep. Beverly Pyle, passed the House on Wednesday and is pending before a Senate committee.

Grant Exton, the executive director of the Arkansas Concealed Carry Association, said allowing concealed weapons would not make churches more likely to have volatile situations — but adds that that is not his point.

"It's a problem of (the government) telling churches what to do in an area of moral issue, where that should be none of their business," Exton said. Of 48 states that allow concealed carry, 42 let churches make the decision, Exton said."We have the government in an area that it shouldn't be," he said.
If the current law is not changed, it is subject to a challenge on constitutional grounds, said John DiPippa, the interim dean at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock School of Law.

A law prohibiting guns from places of worship is similar to a law requiring that churches permit guns, because the government is forcing a decision on a religious institution based on moral grounds, he said. "On the religious argument, you could make the same claim in both directions."

Religious leaders have a responsibility to protect their congregations both spiritually and physically, said Mark DeYmaz, a pastor at Mosaic Church in Little Rock. He opposes allowing guns in churches but said each religious establishment must decide for itself.

"A good shepherd would not allow a wolf near his flock," said DeYmaz, whose church is located in one of the city's tougher areas.

After a man in Colorado went on a shooting spree at two religious facilities in 2007, DeYmaz' community established "the Mosaic Watchmen," a group of ushers trained in security measures but designed to uphold the church's image as a sacred place — not an armed church.

"We're there to be a light in the community, and we don't like the image that would give us," DeYmaz said.

[Siobhra]

You would think that they would like the idea. Right now the state tells the church what they can and can not allow in their buildings. If the bill becomes law they can say if guns are allowed or not.

[1861]

I always CCW when at church.

[Philbert]

There is a lot of fail in that article. You'll need ushers to frisk people if the bill passes, but the existing law presumably enforces itself!

Then we get on to the theological arguments. We should not protect ourselves because God will do it for us. Believe that if you will, I won't get in your way. If you think God is telling you not to use firearms, modern medicine, or anything else, then don't use them. But don't use the government to force your religious views on everyone.

[Paradigm]

This kind of thing is one of the final reasons why I bought my handgun!

Short, short, short story: We had a belligerent (and quite drunk) man come into our church a few months ago. He stood up and started going on a long rant before walking out the back door. This man is known in the neighborhood for having multiple DUIs and owning guns illegally. Plenty of the women and children were scared. A former police chief pulled my brother and I aside to keep an eye on him on the parking lot in case he was retrieving a weapon. Ugh.

Let each church decide its policies.

[etenp99]

I personally believe that if you are physically and mentally capable, then its you're job to protect you and your family.

On the other hand, the pastor, priest or other spiritual leader of a church should take steps to protect the people attending his/her sermon if they decide to forbid guns at their church.

How does ones' carrying of a firearm make churches less safe or more dangerous? This is just more anti nonsense and the state should not have been involved from the start.

The nonsense about having unarmed ushers trained in security measures just baffles me. Maybe some think this will protect them, but to me they're just increasing the death toll. Look how well it has worked in all of the recent mall shootings.

[Paradigm]

The nonsense about having unarmed ushers trained in security measures just baffles me. Maybe some think this will protect them, but to me they're just increasing the death toll. Look how well it has worked in all of the recent mall shootings.

Not just mall shootings...look at the recent church shootings! Wasn't it last year when a church (or Christian school) security guard shot the BG? Then the media questioned the guard's actions (while the citizens recognized that she was a hero).

No place is truly safe. If you think you are safe in a church, school, mall, workplace, etc., then you are fooling yourself.

[imperialism2024]

Not just mall shootings...look at the recent church shootings! Wasn't it last year when a church (or Christian school) security guard shot the BG? Then the media questioned the guard's actions (while the citizens recognized that she was a hero).

No place is truly safe. If you think you are safe in a church, school, mall, workplace, etc., then you are fooling yourself.

Ah yes, the New Life church shooting in Colorado Springs. Jeanne Assam volunteered to act as a security guard that day, IIRC, after a shooting at a church earlier in the day. The media spun it that she was a "security guard" because having a private citizen defend a church wouldn't have fit into their agenda.