Private party, interstate sales of percussion revolvers?

[60clock]

Was just reading the firearms shipping rules sticky for this site and comparing it with other sites I visit, including a dedicated black powder site.

This site’s shipping guidelines basically make the case for no private party handgun sales (inter or intra state?) via shipping methods listed. Does that apply to percussion 19th century replica revolvers as well? If so I’m wondering how Midway and the like can do it? Or is that only because they are FFLs, even if the purchaser is not? What about a private party in one state selling a C&B revolver to a private party in PA? Assuming all parties are 21+ years old and not prohibited. I’m sure this goes on, but is it prohibited for PA residents?

Maybe this is an opportunity to clarify that sticky.

[USMC3531]

Black powder muzzle loading guns are considered "antique" and atf/nfa rules generally dont apply. Now if you convert it to fire cartridges it canbe considereda modern firearm.

[60clock]

Black powder muzzle loading guns are considered "antique" and atf/nfa rules generally dont apply. Now if you convert it to fire cartridges it canbe considereda modern firearm.

Yes that is my understanding as well, but when you read about shipping “firearms” in the sticky, and it says “no handguns”. Well, percussion revolvers are handguns, but they aren’t firearms for Federal purposes.

So, back to my original question, could a private party outside of PA sell to a private party in PA, a 19th century c&b revolver directly, or does the interstate element mean an FFL must be involved? The reason I ask is because a PA resident could go onto Midway or Gunbroker and buy a percussion revolver with no FFL to complete the transfer, correct?

Again, the PA resident is over 21, not prohibited etc. I’m not asking about carrying it, etc, just about if the non-FTF private party to private party sale is OK.

[EFK]

Unless there is a specific state restriction - you'd have to look into that, as some states like NJ, MA etc may have restrictions - there are no restrictions on selling or shipping blackpowder guns of any kind that do not utilize modern cartridges. PA does not have any state level restrictions prohibiting what you propose.

"The reason I ask is because a PA resident could go onto Midway or Gunbroker and buy a percussion revolver with no FFL to complete the transfer, correct?"

Correct. Delivered right to your door.

[USMC3531]

Yes that is my understanding as well, but when you read about shipping *firearms* in the sticky, and it says *no handguns*. Well, percussion revolvers are handguns, but they aren*t firearms for Federal purposes.

So, back to my original question, could a private party outside of PA sell to a private party in PA, a 19th century c&b revolver directly, or does the interstate element mean an FFL must be involved? The reason I ask is because a PA resident could go onto Midway or Gunbroker and buy a percussion revolver with no FFL to complete the transfer, correct?

Again, the PA resident is over 21, not prohibited etc. I*m not asking about carrying it, etc, just about if the non-FTF private party to private party sale is OK.

You missed my whole point, they arent firearms nationally or in PA . So residents of Pa dont need to go thru a ffl to receive one. Other states have different laws though.

[USMC3531]

https://americanguncraft.com/product...ol-brass-blue/


You can go buy one of these without ffl because its not a firearm

[60clock]

You missed my whole point, they arent firearms nationally or in PA . So residents of Pa dont need to go thru a ffl to receive one. Other states have different laws though.

No I didn’t miss your point. A percussion revolver under a certain overall length is a “firearm” in PA (think carry laws, prohibited persons, etc). However, for a PA resident simply buying one in PA, they are considered “antique firearms”, and therefore they can be purchased as long as the purchaser is over 21 and not considered prohibited, etc.

I understand that PA residents (and likely residents of many other states) can purchase percussion/flintlock/BP arms online from the well known sellers (what I assume are FFL dealers) in other states (say Virginia or Tennessee) and have them sent into PA.

My specific question is a private party in one state selling a percussion revolver to a PA resident when neither party is an FFL. No one seems to be able to answer that question.

Further, I’ve heard some people say “well, the private seller from the other state could ship it to an FFL in PA.” Well, it’s a percussion revolver, so what is the PA FFL supposed to do then? Can they even legally process 4473 an “antique firearm” not regulated by Federal laws (regarding sales) like a modern Glock? I don’t see how that’s possible, and that’s another question I’d like answered.

[60clock]

https://americanguncraft.com/product...ol-brass-blue/


You can go buy one of these without ffl because its not a firearm

Ok I’m not trying to be argumentative - but I don’t see how a 10” smoothbore shotgun could be legal in PA. I get how the revolvers that take shotshells can be sold as handguns because they have rifled barrels, but that thing you linked to is a short barreled shotgun. It’s not a replica of an antique gun. Regardless of ignition method, I would seriously stay away from something like that. I’m talking about 19th century Remington and Colt replica revolvers with cap and ball cylinders only.

[60clock]

Unless there is a specific state restriction - you'd have to look into that, as some states like NJ, MA etc may have restrictions - there are no restrictions on selling or shipping blackpowder guns of any kind that do not utilize modern cartridges. PA does not have any state level restrictions prohibiting what you propose.

"The reason I ask is because a PA resident could go onto Midway or Gunbroker and buy a percussion revolver with no FFL to complete the transfer, correct?"

Correct. Delivered right to your door.

Well, let’s look at two examples: a private party in Texas selling to a private party in PA, and a Private party in Arkansas selling to a private party in PA.

[knight0334]

Antique Firearms aren't "Firearms" to federal law. They aren't "Firearms" under PA law, except when carried concealed and for anyone prohibited under Title 18, Chapter 61, Subchapter 6105.


Now, certain states do consider them regulated guns - typically your shit-brained leftist states. And you do have to be mindful of the laws of the recipient's state. Some states may want an "Antique Firearm" shipped to an FFL to do their respective state transfer, registration, etc.

In PA(except the carrying concealed and state prohibited persons), and for most of America - they are legally coffee tables.

Any firearm made before 1898 and any gun that doesn't use fixed cartridges(ie: muzzleloaders, flintlocks, matchlocks, cap & ball, etc) are NOT legally "firearms".

I have an 1840's to 1850's Hollis & Sheath 12ga SxS muzzleloading shotgun that I could legally cut the barrels down below 18" - and it would be perfectly legal. It doubly qualifies... made before 1898 AND doesn't use fixed cartridges.