To intervene or to Not intervene, that is the question...

[streaker69]

Had to look up Linda Stolzfoos case. Tragic. POS got a plea deal to reveal where her body was. I hope he gets some prison justice.

It was big news out here. I talked with some of her friends in the van. The tourist vans go by her family's home on their route. Seems rather ghoulish to do that. Tour vans and buses also stop at a large Amish cemetery for some reason. Tearing down the Nickel Mines school was a good decision, no lookie-loos with it being gone. People suck.

[Palerider]

Drowning people are serious dangers. In their full panic, they can and will take rescuers down with them.

In my rescue diver course, we learned that if a victim grabs on to you and you can't get them off, empty your BCD and submerge. That is the LAST place they want to go. In a non-diving situation, much more dangerous. Very ill advised to let them get close enough to grab you. Unless you are very highly motivated, find an extension of some kind.

True rescue swimmers must have some crazy skills to save a large adult panicking while drowning.

[free]

True rescue swimmers must have some crazy skills to save a large adult panicking while drowning.

If you have no other equipment or supplies, the best move is to stand by and let them exhaust themselves before making physical contact, from behind.

[dannyb]

Just watched a video on Twitter of someone who couldn*t swim drowning. Literally next to a log large enough to hold onto and float. He couldn*t grab it. In same sequence a guy jumps in to help and then I ended up watching 2 people drown as the original guy took the other one down with him.

A couple of years ago I swam pretty far out into the Atlantic Ocean to tow back to shore a little girl on a floaty device who got caught in the wind and kept getting blown further out. After my push/pull swim back who I thought was her mom is thanking me profusely. Turns out she was the aunt, also had a little toddler with her by herself and couldn*t leave him alone.

Tons of people ok to just watch her go.

Unless it*s someone I know, not jumping in to rescue a grown adult drowning. And most likely will stay the hell away from the BS nonsense going down in stores, restaurants, parking lots, etc.

I got my LS back in 1968. The one and only time I ever used it was at the Jersey shore. My friend and I were on the beach, two tween girls got caught in a current and were stuck on a sand bar. We swam out, towed them in, and were met by the actual paid life guards where the water was knee high. They took the girls from us, said something about professionalism, and posed for pictures where the water was ankle high. Now my mantra is: Row, Tow, Throw, go to hell. There's a difference between help and intervention. I'll be glad to help, but I follow the golden rule of "first of all, make it home alive and unhurt."

[Exbiker]

I mentioned it here before. I was at a local lake when a bunch of non-English speaking guests (maybe 8 or 9) from Allentown got into a brawl. People just watching, so I choked up my dog's collar and stepped in "I yelled break it up or I let the dog Loose" The groups separated and about then DCNR law arrived and hauled about 6 of them to the local magistrate. All got charged with drunk and disorderly and a couple had other warrants. Ranger asked me what would my dog have done? I told him probably nothing, he just laughed.

[free]

I mentioned it here before. I was at a local lake when a bunch of non-English speaking guests (maybe 8 or 9) from Allentown got into a brawl. People just watching, so I choked up my dog's collar and stepped in "I yelled break it up or I let the dog Loose" The groups separated and about then DCNR law arrived and hauled about 6 of them to the local magistrate. All got charged with drunk and disorderly and a couple had other warrants. Ranger asked me what would my dog have done? I told him probably nothing, he just laughed.

Why? Why the fuck would to get involved? What would POSSIBLY motivate you to get shot by 8 or more guys instead of minding your own damned business?

[Bang]

"Break it up or I let the dog Loose"

You're under arrest! For Terroristic Threats! (In today's world)

[RockIsland]

If you have no other equipment or supplies, the best move is to stand by and let them exhaust themselves before making physical contact, from behind.

No homo.

Why? Why the fuck would to get involved? What would POSSIBLY motivate you to get shot by 8 or more guys instead of minding your own damned business?

More likely stabbed.

[Excommunicated]

Law of Self Defense details case of firefighter who intervened with irate customer harassing store clerk. The two take it outside, it gets physical, irate customer pulls gun, FF puts irate customer in choke hold, girlfriend of irate customer takes gun, shoots FF dead. No charges, DA decides GF reasonably believed she was acting in defense of others.

[free]

Law of Self Defense details case of firefighter who intervened with irate customer harassing store clerk. The two take it outside, it gets physical, irate customer pulls gun, FF puts irate customer in choke hold, girlfriend of irate customer takes gun, shoots FF dead. No charges, DA decides GF reasonably believed she was acting in defense of others.

Yup. Fuck around and find out. Sounds like GF was "in the right" to me too. Tough guy billie bad ass FF should have minded his own fucking business. As far as GF was concerned, some asshole was choking out her boyfriend. Good shoot. On the other hand, if customer and FF were engaged in mutually-agreeable combat, maybe GF should have minded her own fucking business too.

Of course, IMHO, you don't get to start a fight and then claim self-defense when someone gets the better of you. In this case, WHO STARTED IT? To me, sounds like the FF did, when he decided to get involved in a situation that didn't involve him. However, GF wasn't party to that decision process. From her perspective, doesn't matter who started it - FF is beating the shit out of her BF.

What does "harassing" mean in this context? Was it just mouthing off? Or was it beating the shit out of the store clerk? IMHO, if Person A is just mouthing off to Person B, there are virtually no circumstances under which Person C should feel inclined to get involved. I mean, WHY?!?! Mind your own fucking business. Call the cops if you want to. But as soon as you open YOUR mouth and get involved, well, better hope for the best.

Summary: People need more practice minding their own fucking business.