Results 61 to 70 of 91
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April 22nd, 2024, 02:52 PM #61
Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
Is that low bar for the ATF now? The fact that people can still own and possess and buy a gun means these regs are just a ok? Nothing to see here?
The 9th Amendment outlines that just because there is nothing in the Bill of Rights stating that private gun sales are allowed, it cannot be a reason to forbid them at the federal level.
Doesn't the fact that you seem compelled to bring up the most extreme cases of private sales hurt your argument? Who says they are only targeting people that sell hundreds of guns per year? It seems to me that moving forward, anyone who shows up at a gun show with even a few guns and a table is making themselves an open target for an investigation, especially after the ATF opens up their snitch hotline for people to call and report these folks.
If the whole reason for this is to firm up universal background checks, and if the ATF did not want this to be as vindictive and capricious as possible, then why did they not have a carve-out that allows these private sellers to go thru any FFL when selling? That would accomplish background checks for all sales if the unlicensed "dealer" ie collector wanted to comply with any possible changing societal norms.
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April 22nd, 2024, 02:55 PM #62Super Member
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Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
Did you read the redefinition? It pretty clearly outlines what *being in the business* of selling firearms is. I know many non licensed sellers that fit the definition of being in business. I*m not sure if you know, but being an unlicensed gun dealer has been illegal for a very long time now. That being said, we all know that in order to bring a case against someone they will have to prove a pattern. The ATF is to going to hammer someone over two or three guns. They are going to hammer the guys selling hundreds of guns that are set up at shows several weekends each month. That is what this is geared to do. It sounds as though you are really worried about something that shouldn*t apply to you. However, if you are indeed one of these guys selling hundreds of guns each year without a license*.then yes, this would apply to you and you should worry a little bit.
Everybody wants to be a gun dealer*.until you have to do gun dealer shit. Then, when people figure out how hard it is to be a dealer*..they are no longer interested in doing it the right way. As stated before, nothing in this redefinition says you cannot sell your own collection. Nothing bars people from buying, owning, or possessing firearms.
I*m not anti-gun but i do understand that some people think that anyone not lock stepping with their interpretation of the 2A, is considered by them *anti-gun*. I also understand that there are some tin foil hat wearing folks that believe a background check is a bad thing. I get it. However, no one has yet to prove that anything in this redefinition is anti-2A. And if you think that the ATF prosecuting dealers operating without a license is something new*then you need to educate yourself a little more on the subject.
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April 22nd, 2024, 02:58 PM #63Super Member
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Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
The reason they didnt outline the background check issue is because many people would cry and bitch about the ATF coming for their guns, and infringing on their rights. Kind of sounds as though you are talking in circles and are defeating your own argument. To each their own. Good luck with your fear mongering.
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April 22nd, 2024, 03:02 PM #64
Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
A friend use to buy 8 M1 garands at a time from the cmp, and sell them at shows. 80 in all over a ten year period.
He was an FFL at one time but gave it up.FJB
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April 22nd, 2024, 03:14 PM #65
Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
The infringing of rights ship already sailed long ago.
If you and I are young and fortunate enough, perhaps we can revisit this issue a decade or so from now, and see if I was fearmongering or not. Or maybe our children or grandchildren will marvel over the end of gun violence because of this new reg. As for now, I will simply note that I am willing to accept the fact that this new edict just might not be as horrible as I fear, but alternately are you willing to accept that there may be some very bad unintended consequences of this that you do not currently see coming?Last edited by TSimonetti; April 22nd, 2024 at 03:52 PM.
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April 22nd, 2024, 03:48 PM #66
Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
No I don't want to be a gun dealer, and don't consider myself a dealer. I've never set up at a gun show to sell any guns. But just to be clear, do you think that a gun collector should be able to rent a table at a gun show and sell part of their collection, and then buy more guns at a later date as the feeling strikes them? Or are ALL these folks suddenly "unlicensed dealers" now? What is your criteria? number of guns? type of guns? time frame between sales and re-stock? All of the above? And do you think that at some point in the future, your feelings on this might be vastly different than an ATF agent in the field conducting an investigation?
Sure, go after the serial flippers who have been violating the laws against unlicensed dealing for a long time, but they are going to have to convince me to have trust in them to not attack normal Americans who are just exercising a little freedom just like we have been doing for Centuries. They have to earn my trust here. I'm not just going to give it to them because they certainly don't deserve it yet based on their history.Last edited by TSimonetti; April 22nd, 2024 at 04:03 PM.
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April 22nd, 2024, 08:18 PM #67Grand Member
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Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
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April 24th, 2024, 09:14 AM #68Member
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Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
I wonder how this affects the criminal element ?
Oh that's right criminals don't follow the law .
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Weird huh how it seems like criminals get more 2nd amendment freedoms than law abiding citizens do .
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No background checks , full auto , short barrel , conceal carry .
Revolving door policy when caught doing said things
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Why it's almost like the Fed is in bed with em
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April 26th, 2024, 05:17 PM #69
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May 4th, 2024, 12:09 AM #70Super Member
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Re: ATF is changing the term "business" for FFL's.
The ability to hold any gun owner at risk of legal jeopardy is the goal of every single one of these rulemaking efforts that introduce new ambiguity. Sure, they might not target you for selling one firearm. But now they can. And if they have some other reason to screw you, make no mistake, they will.
Keep in mind, there is no exception in the rule for someone who sells a firearm to an FFL or who sells a firearm to another person via an FFL. Even if that buyer goes through a background check at an FFL, if you made a profit, or would have liked to have made a profit and you don't have an FFL yourself, this seems to give them the legal latitude to try to prosecute you.
If your initials happened to be DJT, for sure you'd be catching that charge. Hunter Biden? Never gonna happen. Support Donald? Charges for you. Build back better sign in your yard? No problemo.
Selective enforcement is the standard operating procedure these days. If you don't realize that, wake up!I am not a lawyer.
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