Advice on a 45/70 trap door

**bortle** · October 30th, 2023, 06:21 PM

Kinda got the itch for a trap door for deer hunting. Single shot, semi close range (50-100 yds.) Maybe 50'. I have a Ruger #3 that works very well but I want to go a bit more basic. I don't want a civil war gun, looking more at the repro's. Uberti, Pedersoli ect. I don't (need) another deer rifle but you know how it is. I don't see many at gun shops to look at. Any thoughts? Any thing to avoid?

**Noah_Zark** · October 30th, 2023, 08:02 PM

Another Trapdoor to consider is the H&R; there are three basic models, Carbine, Officers Model, and the hardest to find, Infantry. I've owned all three and the Infantry was my favorite. It "hung" well offhand, and was phenomenally accurate with 14 gr of Unique under a 350 to 400 gr cast bullet, a sort of smokeless black powder duplicate load.

I sold the Infantry to a collector acquaintance who had to have it, and replaced it with a Pedersoli Infantry model. Fortunately it performs as well as the H&R Infantry did. I got it at Maurers, and from time to time they have had repro Trap doors in the glass cases on the back wall. Not a cheap date, though.

The only issue with the H&R and Pedersoli Trap doors is that the trap door latch is fixed to the shaft with a set screw. This needs to be checked and tightened periodically, or the screw and latch threads cleaned and degreased with acetone and a bit of blue Loctite used to hold the setscrew fast. Other fixes are to spot drill the shaft and grind a dog point on a longer screw tip to match the drill spot on the shaft, or use two short set screws, one locking the other in place, but finding screws with the proper thread might be an issue. I did the blue Loctite trick after thorough cleaning and the setscrews on either the H&Rs or the Pedersoli never loosened.

I read a couple articles that stated the H&R tooling was sold to Pedersoli, but like a lot of what gun writers write, it may or may not be true. Pedersoli may have reverse engineered H&R trapdoors, too.

I would avoid any firearm from IAB. I don't think they made a Trapdoor, but their Sharps repros are sketchy. There's an old saying, IAB stand for "It's Always Broken."

And that brings me to a final consideration, Pedersoli Sharps are nice rifles, particularly the lighter carbines and business rifles, anything under 8 to 9 lbs. Those 30" "Quigley" replicas are too heavy for woods carry. I can bring a nice Pedersoli Sharps carbine to Pony Farm in two weeks if you want to handle it.

HTH,

Noah

**borekfk** · October 31st, 2023, 08:00 PM

And here I thought IAB stood for "Its Already Broken" lol.

To add onto the what gun writers write might or might not be true, I've read that Uberti's rifles are manufactured for them by Pedersoli. No idea if true, but I know I've read forum posts where people swore it is true while providing no proof.

Originally Posted by Noah_Zark

Another Trapdoor to consider is the H&R; there are three basic models, Carbine, Officers Model, and the hardest to find, Infantry. I've owned all three and the Infantry was my favorite. It "hung" well offhand, and was phenomenally accurate with 14 gr of Unique under a 350 to 400 gr cast bullet, a sort of smokeless black powder duplicate load.

I sold the Infantry to a collector acquaintance who had to have it, and replaced it with a Pedersoli Infantry model. Fortunately it performs as well as the H&R Infantry did. I got it at Maurers, and from time to time they have had repro Trap doors in the glass cases on the back wall. Not a cheap date, though.

The only issue with the H&R and Pedersoli Trap doors is that the trap door latch is fixed to the shaft with a set screw. This needs to be checked and tightened periodically, or the screw and latch threads cleaned and degreased with acetone and a bit of blue Loctite used to hold the setscrew fast. Other fixes are to spot drill the shaft and grind a dog point on a longer screw tip to match the drill spot on the shaft, or use two short set screws, one locking the other in place, but finding screws with the proper thread might be an issue. I did the blue Loctite trick after thorough cleaning and the setscrews on either the H&Rs or the Pedersoli never loosened.

I read a couple articles that stated the H&R tooling was sold to Pedersoli, but like a lot of what gun writers write, it may or may not be true. Pedersoli may have reverse engineered H&R trapdoors, too.

I would avoid any firearm from IAB. I don't think they made a Trapdoor, but their Sharps repros are sketchy. There's an old saying, IAB stand for "It's Always Broken."

And that brings me to a final consideration, Pedersoli Sharps are nice rifles, particularly the lighter carbines and business rifles, anything under 8 to 9 lbs. Those 30" "Quigley" replicas are too heavy for woods carry. I can bring a nice Pedersoli Sharps carbine to Pony Farm in two weeks if you want to handle it.

HTH,

Noah

**bortle** · November 1st, 2023, 05:18 PM

i seen one at the pony farm last time. Didn't look too close as I didn't have the $$ and he was kinda busy at the time.
Big won't hurt because I don't walk around much. $$ is still an issue as some thing didn't pan out as expected. Such is life.

**DukeConnor** · November 1st, 2023, 06:05 PM

Noah covered this pretty well. All I can add is I have a Pedersoli carbine. It has great fit and finish and is fun to shoot. I load cast 405 (?) Grain bullets from a Lee mold over Unique.

When I bring it out everyone wants to shoot it.

**wstrayer** · December 25th, 2023, 01:15 PM

The reproduction have modern steel barrel. .458" grooves and the use of jacketed bullets is OK for these.
Originals are an oversized groove and the long term use of jacketed bullets is hard on the bores. I have an original 1880 that had a bad bore so I had Bob Hoyt reline it. New liner is modern steel with 1-48" twist like the originals but a .458" groove. It shoots either the Lee 405 HB cast soft as per originals or Speer JHP 300 or 400 JFP.
The original carbines had a replaceable blade front sight. The rifles did not. The originals all shot high at 100 yards. They were set up to shoot POA at 165 yards using the 45-70/405 BP load. I removed the front sight blade and replaced it with a higher blade blank and filed it down to POA for my BP equivilant loads.

**Ecclectic Collector** · December 27th, 2023, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by wstrayer

The reproduction have modern steel barrel. .458" grooves and the use of jacketed bullets is OK for these.
Originals are an oversized groove and the long term use of jacketed bullets is hard on the bores. I have an original 1880 that had a bad bore so I had Bob Hoyt reline it. New liner is modern steel with 1-48" twist like the originals but a .458" groove. It shoots either the Lee 405 HB cast soft as per originals or Speer JHP 300 or 400 JFP.
The original carbines had a replaceable blade front sight. The rifles did not. The originals all shot high at 100 yards. They were set up to shoot POA at 165 yards using the 45-70/405 BP load. I removed the front sight blade and replaced it with a higher blade blank and filed it down to POA for my BP equivilant loads.

I've got an original Sharps carbine with trashed barrel at Hoyts right now to be relined. I can't wait to get it back.

Anyway, on to the topic. Why not get an original Trapdoor Springfield? Good ones still seem to be selling for well less than a thousand dollars. You can get new factory ammo loaded with lead bullets designed to be safely shot in originals. Or you can make your own ammo quite easily enough. Don't be put off by ammo prices btw, its the same nonsense everywhere with prices these days.

If you want something a bit more "modern": The High Wall replicas and Rolling Blocks by Uberti are quite nice. Both very strong as well, so no worry about wrecking a nice original. New ones a bit over a thousand, but used ones do show up all the time for less. A really nice High Wall sold here in the classified a few months ago with an asking price around $700. Whomever bought it got a great deal.

**W2MC** · December 27th, 2023, 11:31 AM

Had a H&R Officer's trapdoor years ago. Fantastic gun.
I ended-up selling it years ago to a guy I worked with - he was going on an old-time hunt, and was looking for a period-style rifle to hunt with. He loved it, too. Hope he's still enjoying it.

**bortle** · December 28th, 2023, 03:50 PM

I went with a Pedersoli sharps I got of another member (thank you).I really like it although it is a bit heavy. Accuracy is good. Or as good as my old eyes can see with open sights. But at 100 yds. looking at a brown deer in the brown woods and I couldn't get a good enough sight picture to shoot. It didn't help that the deer was as big as a collie. Pondering a scope. The full length style. Not too many options and none of them are cheap.