Best place to purchase first suppressor?

[esh21167]

As far as a trust and responsible persons, I have 4 people besides myself as trustees. I just filed my first 41P at the beginning of November (which added the fingerprinting for 'responsible persons.) I typed up a short amendment removing the 4 others as trustees, go it notarized, and submitted it. It was approved without issue in 18 days. Then afterwards, you can destroy the amendment, or make another one adding them back on. I've read many people are doing this, and a few said ATF gave the OK on that process.

I've also read of some people making their own trusts using Quicken Willmaker (?) or just typing it as a Word document on their own. Personally, I think $100 to have an attorney do it is well worth the peace of mind, and I'm a real cheapskate. I use NFA Lawyers/Dean Philips.

Regarding the suppressor itself. I personally wouldn't get one for .223/5.56. I'd get one for a larger caliber, the largest you think you'll ever need. All other things being equal, a .45 can will suppress 9mm within about 2-3dB of a dedicated 9mm can, and probably suppress .223/5.56 within about 5-6dB of a dedicated .223/5.56 can. But you can't shoot a .45 through a .223/5.56 can. And remember that .223/5.56 is supersonic so you probably won't get hearing safe. There are subsonic .223/5.56 loads, but they won't cycle a semi-auto.

[bogey1]

You actually can do your own fingerprints, there is nothing in the ATF instructions that says you must have the prints done by X, Y or Z. At my shop I provide the fingerprint cards and explain how to do your own fingerprints (I supply the FP ink and card holder) so that they come out acceptable for the FBI.

If you have EVER been fingerprinted in the past the .GOV has them on file already.

The reason I dont understand the ten sets of prints they have of mine

[NathanB]

There is no easier way than silencershop and their kiosk. Period

[XavierBK]

I've only bought mine from Lanco Tactical in Elizabethtown and they have been great.

[zachomega]

How many people are gong to be on the trust? How many of them want to fill out the forms and do the FP's and photos and undergo the background check?

Either way, if you create the trust, you have to submit your FP's, answer the ATF questions and undergo the background check just the same as if you do it as an individual. And if something happens to you, as an individual Form 1 or Form 4 holder the NFA item(s) are as easily transferred to your heirs as it is to the next trustee.

It used to be that the trust was the way to go because there were no requirements for the people in the trust to do FP, questions, BGC's (other than the maker of the trust had to do a BGC when they picked up the Approved Form 4 and the NFA item). In most cases that I saw, there was no need for a trust because the maker of the trust probably wasn't going to allow the trust item(s) to be taken and used by the other trustees with him (or her) to be at the same place, it was just to make it easier for the item(s) to be stored by someone else (a trustee) if something bad happened to the trust maker. Remember, the trust actually owns the item(s) not the person who bought it/them and then if the trust is dissolved, it could create problems if the dissolution steps are not clearly set out in the trust paperwork.

That is definitely something to consider. The way it was presented to me seemed to indicate that the trust was more beneficial. But i have no interest in leaving nfa items with anybody while I'm not there. I was just trying to make things easier in the event of my death. But it sounds like it might be easier without the trust. I really appreciate your detailed responses.

As far as a trust and responsible persons, I have 4 people besides myself as trustees. I just filed my first 41P at the beginning of November (which added the fingerprinting for 'responsible persons.) I typed up a short amendment removing the 4 others as trustees, go it notarized, and submitted it. It was approved without issue in 18 days. Then afterwards, you can destroy the amendment, or make another one adding them back on. I've read many people are doing this, and a few said ATF gave the OK on that process.

I've also read of some people making their own trusts using Quicken Willmaker (?) or just typing it as a Word document on their own. Personally, I think $100 to have an attorney do it is well worth the peace of mind, and I'm a real cheapskate. I use NFA Lawyers/Dean Philips.

Regarding the suppressor itself. I personally wouldn't get one for .223/5.56. I'd get one for a larger caliber, the largest you think you'll ever need. All other things being equal, a .45 can will suppress 9mm within about 2-3dB of a dedicated 9mm can, and probably suppress .223/5.56 within about 5-6dB of a dedicated .223/5.56 can. But you can't shoot a .45 through a .223/5.56 can. And remember that .223/5.56 is supersonic so you probably won't get hearing safe. There are subsonic .223/5.56 loads, but they won't cycle a semi-auto.

I don't shoot anything larger than 5.56 or .223. While i might get a larger caliber in the future, i can't see that happening when the max distance i can shoot is 100 yards.

I'm not really worried about suppressing a 9mm pistol. I don't own any pistol caliber larger.

2-6 db of sound might not seem like a lot, but my audio background tells me that 6db is quite a bit. An increase of 3-4 db doubles the perceived sound. So 6 db might be almost 4x louder.

-Zach

[esh21167]

I don't shoot anything larger than 5.56 or .223. While i might get a larger caliber in the future, i can't see that happening when the max distance i can shoot is 100 yards.

I'm not really worried about suppressing a 9mm pistol. I don't own any pistol caliber larger.

2-6 db of sound might not seem like a lot, but my audio background tells me that 6db is quite a bit. An increase of 3-4 db doubles the perceived sound. So 6 db might be almost 4x louder.

-Zach

Are you saying you do have a 9mm handgun? You'll eventually want to suppress that. It's contagious.

But check the dB ratings for a larger caliber suppressor when used for 5.56. It may not be so bad, especially a 9mm one.

[Steve_NEPhila]

There is a lot of garbage out there when it comes to decibel ratings for silencers. There is a gun nerd named Jay and he started Pew Science, it is absolutely Gold!

https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews

With silencers, if you do not expect to mag dump ten magazines or use it on a select fire machine gun, focus on weight. Lighter is better, every single time. Buy good quality, because you will have to wait months for approval anyway. I like silencers, a lot. All of my centerfire rifles have them. Check out the Erector by Q for a rimfire can, I love mine...

[Ronin]

I bought an NFA trust from https://nfalawyers.com a couple of years ago. The process was super simple. Needed it for my wife and I and (initially) a couple of other family members. Sat on it for two years before finally giving in and buying two suppressors. Since by that time I no longer wanted anyone on the trust other than my wife and I, and I hadn't gotten the trust notarized yet, I reached out to Dean Phillips and asked him to re-write the trust to remove everyone but us. His para turned it around in a few hours and charged nothing for it.

I had the trust notarized at a local Mail-N-More, and I purchased two suppressors (.22lr and .45 cal) from The Bunker Gun Shop in Warminster. They handled everything from fingerprints to photos to filing. Charged their fee. Done in about an hour. That was back in August. Now I'm just waiting for .gov to tell me I'm allowed to collect my things.

[planigan]

I got a trust mostly because I didn't want to engrave my full name on my Form 1 stuff. It will also make it easier for my wife to possess my NFA firearms in the future. I'm currently the only RP, with her as a beneficiary, but I'll add her as a co-trustee/RP eventually.

I used nationalguntrusts.com. They cost $60 and you get it pretty much instantly. The trust paperwork includes amendment pages that you can use for assigning items to the trust, adding/removing co-trustees (responsible parties), changing beneficiaries, changing your address, etc. Get it notarized and you're good to go.

As others have said, SilencerShop kiosks are the dead simplest way to get into suppressors, but a knowledgeable dealer can make the process almost as easy. Aside from making sure all of the firearm info is correct, the Form 4 really isn't that much more complicated than a 4473. Then it's just prints, photo, and wait.

[buckengr]

As far as a trust and responsible persons, I have 4 people besides myself as trustees. I just filed my first 41P at the beginning of November (which added the fingerprinting for 'responsible persons.) I typed up a short amendment removing the 4 others as trustees, go it notarized, and submitted it. It was approved without issue in 18 days. Then afterwards, you can destroy the amendment, or make another one adding them back on.

I don't believe the part in red is a good idea. My understanding is trust paperwork is solely additive and you aren't supposed to simply tear up the previous amendment. Pretty sure you need to add a new one to "undo" the previous one and have it notarized in order to be valid. Keep in mind, you have to send a copy of the trust to ATF (and all amendments) with every submission.

Perhaps there is some alternative way of drafting a trust that doesn't have this restriction, but that is my understanding. It would be unpleasant to find out that your trust is invalid for some reason.