Anyone ever hear of something like this?

[AJS84]

One of my shooting buddies said he was in a local gun shop over the weekend looking to buy a used bolt action rifle. He was looking at some new guns on the other side of a counter while a husband and wife (he assumed) were looking at some handguns. He explained to me that the husband was helping his wife select the right gun and she had made her decision and she asked him what he thought of it and he said that he believed it was a good choice. When they said that they would like to buy it the clerk behind the counter handed out the paper work and said that the woman could buy the gun but he would also have to run a background on the man who was with her because he showed "interest" in the firearm. I have never heard of something like this happening before and I was wondering if anybody here could shed some light on it?

[RHGregory3]

This happens more frequently than you'd think. The guy most likely red flagged by the employee due to her constant search of approval in his selection. If it smells funny, they'll try to avoid a straw purchase whenever possible.

Usually I would say something along the lines of how it's got to be illegal - but think of it this way, firearms get a bad rep from illegally owners - one less potential sideways shooting gangster out there is fine by me.

But it may have been completely legit. FFLs have to be careful and sometiemes overcareful. Some people are very convincing.

[AJS84]

Thanks for the reply I was just curious to see if anyone else knew if this happens sometimes or if that was just an isolated incident. I guess it is better for the dealer to be cautious and do this instead of allowing a weapon to fall into the hands of a criminal.

[HiredGoon]

How can an FFL do a PICS check on 2 people buying the same gun?

Or on the woman buying the gun and the guy not buying anything...just to check him out?

Something here does not make sense.

[Xringshooter]

The gun dealer can ONLY do a background check on the person who is filling out the paperwork, period, that is the law.

Here is what Article G, Chapter 61, Sub Chapter A, Section 6111(g)(3) says:
Any person, licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer
or licensed importer who knowingly and intentionally requests
a criminal history, juvenile delinquency or mental health
record check or other confidential information from the
Pennsylvania State Police under this chapter for any purpose
other than compliance with this chapter or knowingly and
intentionally disseminates any criminal history, juvenile
delinquency or mental health record or other confidential
information to any person other than the subject of the
information commits a felony of the third degree.

And part of the compliance is the background check on the PURCHASER. Article G, Chapter 61, Sub Chapter A, Section 6111(b)(3) says:
Requested by means of a telephone call that the
Pennsylvania State Police conduct a criminal history,
juvenile delinquency history and a mental health record
check. The purchaser and the licensed dealer shall provide
such information as is necessary to accurately identify the
purchaser. The requester shall be charged a fee equivalent to
the cost of providing the service but not to exceed $2 per
buyer or transferee.

(Bolds are mine)

Many men help their wives buy guns, especially if the wife is a novice and she may want his input (do you think it's too big for my hands, how much will it kick, will it fit in my purse ok, etc., etc.). There is nothing wrong with this.

Now, it the conversation were directed to what the MAN wants (Is this the one you want, are you sure me buying this is ok, etc.) the dealer then needs to be more careful and look for other things that may lead him to believe that it may be a straw purchase (I have things that I would look for but sorry I won't reveal them here, I don't give out my strategies for someone to find workarounds ).

Also remember, a husband and wife can go into a gun shop and the wife can buy a gun, do the paperwork, pass the background check and as soon as the purchase is completed hand the gun to her husband and say "Happy Birthday, Anniversary, Kwanzaa, etc., and that is perfectly legal (unless the husband is a prohibited person and the dealer probably doesn't have any way of knowing that).

[zachomega]

What about this situation:

A guy and girl (not married) go to a gun shop. They are shopping for a pistol for the girl. The guy is paying the girl is filling out the paper work.

I've been through this once so I am curious to hear the responses.

-Zach

[Exbiker]

How can an FFL do a PICS check on 2 people buying the same gun?

Or on the woman buying the gun and the guy not buying anything...just to check him out?

Something here does not make sense.

Can you co-purchase a gun? You can a car and a house and even a business.

[Xringshooter]

Can you co-purchase a gun? You can a car and a house and even a business.

No, you can't co-purchase a gun, there are no provisions in the law for that to be done.

[fragmag]

Good questions in here. I'm very interested in some of the answers.

[Xringshooter]

What about this situation:

A guy and girl (not married) go to a gun shop. They are shopping for a pistol for the girl. The guy is paying the girl is filling out the paper work.

I've been through this once so I am curious to hear the responses.

-Zach

That's a touchy scenerio. It could be perfectly legitimate, nothing in the laws says that the purchaser has to be the person who is paying for the gun. It could be a boyfriend buying his girlfriend a gift. It could be a straw purchase. I think I would have to go with my gut feeling in this case. If you're running a gun store I think that over the years you get a feel for your clientele, and you can kinda sense when something isn't quite right.

Now, what I am going to say next may not be PC and many may say that you can't use that to judge a person. But I am running a business that can be shut down (and I go to jail) in a heartbeat if I do just ONE thing wrong (or cost me $$$ to try to prove why I shouldn't be shut down): Watch their body language, manner of speech (gangs many times have their own language, and you can get from police examples of this language), the speaking itself (slurred, etc.), manner of dress, types/placement of body art, etc. If you are not comfortable with anything you can tell them "sorry I can't do the transaction". You don't have to explain why, it's your butt on the line not theirs. It almost has to be gut feelings, even the BATFE can't tell you how to be 100% sure it is or is not a straw purchase.

I'm not a mind reader, a couple could come it and look/act perfect and it could be a straw purchase. Another couple could give me all the wrong vibes and be completely legal. All I can do is my best. As far as I know I have not sold to someone doing a straw purchase but I'm in a bit different situation as I am not a stocking dealer. New guns sold by me are typically special orders (takes days or weeks to get the firearm in) and when we have the sporting goods only sales I or the other sellers have a pretty good handle on the sales (that's not to say that we haven't sold something to someone that later gave it to a prohibited person, we just don't know).