Any Class 1' here?? ive attached a pic for reference on why

i dont like wasting anyones time, and would appreciate mine not being wasted, i know we have some very experienced SOT's here!! and would prefer to speak to someone that a friend or fellow member has dealt with.. keep it in house sorta speak

so if anyone has a recommendation for someone specific, please let me know, just remember.. CLASS 1


and for most that dont know me, dont worry, im not a fly by night or troller, i have met some great gents here, guys ive dealt with personally know im not full of sh*t,

i was affiliated with CBP out of newark, and now work in Athens Greece in a similar capacity, obviously come and go from home and here

i want to speak to a Class 1 regarding the pic attached which is located in Athens Greece

please PM or email contact details and ill call at the time you tell me

First a few thoughts about what you might be asking. I'm not sure what you mean when you are saying "Class 1"

There are Title I firearms - standard rifles, shotguns and handguns

There are Title II firearms - short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, full automatic or burst fire firearms (machines guns and machine pistols) and suppressors (silencers) and other types of weapons.

A FFL with a classification of 01 (typically shown as 01 FFL or FFL01) can handle Title I firearms

There are 01 FFL's with a 03 classification (FFL01/SOT3). They have paid a Special Occupational Tax fee which allows them to buy, sell, transfer Title II firearms.

A 01 FFL without a 03 SOT can only deal in Title I firearms, they cannot not deal in Title II firearms.

The picture you show (stripped lower receiver) has a 3rd hole (above the selector switch hole) which means it is made to accept the mechanism to have the ability to fire either burst or fully automatic. By National Firearms Act definitions, because it has this 3rd hole and is complete with nothing done to it that would make it impossible to be restored, in their words "it can be readily restored to a functional condition by the replacement of missing or defective component parts." They also say "Please be aware that case law is not specific but courts have held the the "readily restorable" test is satisfied where a firearm can be made capable of renewed automatic operation, even if it requires some degree of skill and the use of tols and parts."

Thus this lower receiver is basically considered, in the eyes of the BATFE, a machine gun and I don't believe you could import it into the US without a lot of work. That said, I am not an importer so there may be a way to do it, I just don't know how ot do that.

3rd hole = MG receiver.

The only way it can be imported would be by a licensed Importer FFL with whatever SOT - for sale to US military or law enforcement, some exceptions are made for museums of certain MG of collectable or historical significance.

No MG can be imported for private possession, period - no if, ands, or buts. Only MG's registered with ATF before 1986 are transferable.


Any attempt to bring that receiver in Greece to the USA would likely result in your learning what "Greek" means.

XringShooter!!

whats going on brother? dont know if you remember me from 2015-2016, had some ATF issues surrounding an HK51 transfer from AZ?.. eventually voided the transaction due to some insight you and some other members voiced back then, publicly and privately, that proved helpful.. i kept getting denied the transfer even after ATF approval letter ringing any bells?

btw.. that rifle as of 2018 was still in limbo, ATF hold, it was sent back to AZ due to missing paperwork and chain of ownership mismatches

anyhow..

knight?.. thats what my question would have been, obviously these are US arms, here in Greece, abandoned at some point and for whatever reason and were open to salvaging for the past 40+ yrs..


wouldnt these be registered somewhere? since their origin was the US? their must be a record somewhere these MG's were made, them being here i think is irrelevant, they were US made weapons that were brought overseas for whatever reason at whatever time.. if they are registered this could be a gold mine no?

i came across this on tuesday, and as of last night, have found DOZENS of stripped rifles thrown in boxes and garbage bags, ALL M16A1's, dozens of them.. literally.. DOZENS of stripped rifles, plastics, uppers (garbage bags)

boxes and bags spray painted marked between 1977-1978, obviously NFA

is there a way or place to check serial numbers?




on another note..
i figured ide talk to a Class 1= NFA Importers

edit:..
on a side note.. it is my understanding from the grapevine here that these were brought in by private sector on a contract for US embassy protection here in Athens.. NON military

Yes, I do remember that now, it's too bad you couldn't have gotten it, that's a nice firearm.

Colt would/should have records of the sale, you might contact them with the serial number(s) to see if/what they can tell you. In this case, from what you are saying, it probably would have been a private security firm with a contract with the US Embassy that got them. Even thought they may be considered non-military, they may have been approved by the ATF because they were being exported. You could also contact the NFA Division to see if they are in the registry and could legally be imported back to the US. If they are, and could be brought back, and you could prove that you legally owned them, then an importer (FFL08 with the proper SOT) would be required to import it/them. I will post your question on a forum that only FFLs can be on and see what the very experienced importers have to say.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xringshooter

Yes, I do remember that now, it's too bad you couldn't have gotten it, that's a nice firearm.

Colt would/should have records of the sale, you might contact them with the serial number(s) to see if/what they can tell you. In this case, from what you are saying, it probably would have been a private security firm with a contract with the US Embassy that got them. Even thought they may be considered non-military, they may have been approved by the ATF because they were being exported. You could also contact the NFA Division to see if they are in the registry and could legally be imported back to the US. If they are, and could be brought back, and you could prove that you legally owned them, then an importer (FFL08 with the proper SOT) would be required to import it/them. I will post your question on a forum that only FFLs can be on and see what the very experienced importers have to say.

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thanks brother!!!!

im going to start googling for an ATF contact number regarding NFA registered firearms..

and yah.. please post this in the FFL only section.. hopefully someone has some more insight on this that can help.. im pretty sure i can talk my way into getting serial number or 2 for checking..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xringshooter

Yes, I do remember that now, it's too bad you couldn't have gotten it, that's a nice firearm.

Colt would/should have records of the sale, you might contact them with the serial number(s) to see if/what they can tell you. In this case, from what you are saying, it probably would have been a private security firm with a contract with the US Embassy that got them. Even thought they may be considered non-military, they may have been approved by the ATF because they were being exported. You could also contact the NFA Division to see if they are in the registry and could legally be imported back to the US. If they are, and could be brought back, and you could prove that you legally owned them, then an importer (FFL08 with the proper SOT) would be required to import it/them. I will post your question on a forum that only FFLs can be on and see what the very experienced importers have to say.

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got some more info Xring..

been researching and sourcing info on these,

chances are these are 600 series (603? 613?) rifles exported under private and public agency contract requests back in the late 70's which coincides with the storage information, no one knows how many were exported all over the world,

BUT, heres where it gets iffy, it didnt matter where or to whom the rifles were going to, it was a crap shoot back them if the rifles were added to the registry before export... international export sales were not mandated or governed very tightly back then, and shipping directly to international public agencies under export license (i.e. Armalite, Colt, etc.) was common,, some were registered, MOST were not.. but private agency sales would ALL be in the registry.. so who knows..

ive forwarded some info to the ATF for clarification..

funny thing tho.. after telling them i have a NFA m16a1 lower receiver available to me, and wanted to check the registry for legality purposes, and without telling them where it is, it didnt seem like they cared all too much, i got a generic " when we get around to it" type of response from them

is that normal?

any suggestions?

Is that "normal"? Yes, pretty much so. With the NFA Division you really need to be VERY specific when talking about NFA items with them.

Well, now the bad news. I did get some good, reliable info while talking to a good friend who is in the NFA business and does know the ins and outs of NFA items.

Even if they would be allowed back into the US, they would be "dated" as a post 1986 item, which means tht they could only used as post '86 sells, meaning only to police, governments or to SOTS for demonstration purposes only. They could not be sold to private individuals - period. It doesn't matter when they were originally built or exported. When being imported, their "birthdate" is the day they get imported into the US and as such could not be sold as a pre '86 model.

Basically means an importer probably wouldn't want to go out of their way to get them because the market to sell them actually is pretty small and the prices wouldn't be that great, not like selling a transferable machine gun (that's BIG money).