⚠️ Report: Pa. ranked one of the deadliest states for winter driving crashes

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Originally Posted by bogey1

Blame the suv drivers that drive like spongebob because they have 4x4.

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I dont care who you are, how well you drive, and how good your all season tires are. 4 wheel/all wheel drive aint gonna make up for stupidity and turns in 4 wheel slide pretty quick with all seasons. Snow tires and common sense are still a requirement

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Originally Posted by scruff

Good tires, yes, but people also need to SLOW THE FUCK DOWN!

In good conditions, I'm one of the fastest drivers on the road. In bad snow and ice, half of other drivers are passing me. It's idiotic. SUV's seem to be the worst offenders. It's funny how many wind up in the ditch. 4WD doesn't do squat when you're sideways.

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Yeah, that's me too. I tend to drive in a 'spirited' manner in the dry, but go slow & steady (even with 4x4 and decent tires) in the snow/ice.

Even more than that, I just avoid going out when the roads are shitty. I'm lucky to be in that situation: I don't have a 'job job' to which I must go, and barring some emergency we can easily not leave the property for a couple days.

Finally... So. Central PA. We just don't get 'significant' snowfall here that many times/winter. If I lived up by Erie, higher elevation, etc. might be different.

Oddly enough, I was debating just this morning how much to get into 'snow removal' for my new (fairly large/long) driveway. Do I stick with my 24" good-enough snowblower and just know it'll take a while? Or upgrade to something bigger? Or just pay the guy next door (who has a plowing biz) to do my driveway the few times there's enough to matter... I'm leaning toward the latter at the moment.

^I second latter.^

The motion passes.

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Originally Posted by Woodwanderer

I dont care who you are, how well you drive, and how good your all season tires are. 4 wheel/all wheel drive aint gonna make up for stupidity and turns in 4 wheel slide pretty quick with all seasons. Snow tires and common sense are still a requirement

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Common sense is but snow tires really aren’t. Sure they improve your traction but they’re not absolutely necessary.

I spent a lot of time skiing back in the day on the east coast, west coast, BC/Canadian Rockies, and even in NZ. Not once did I ever have snow tires, or ever get in a accident. I grew up driving 400hp rear wheel drive lead sleds, so I don’t drive like a granny either.

Once drove up to Vermont for a week in a blizzard both ways in a ‘70 Delta 88 with shitty bias plies. I did drive like a granny that time.

Now in my front wheel drive fart boxes, I have been putting snows at least on the front. On the AWD’s? Nope, don’t really need them around here. If I was more north it might be a different story.

I can drive better in snow on racing slicks than all of you put together.
Bam!

End thread.

I live in Erie, where we get real snow. 72 inches over Christmas, no problem.

Both things mentioned here, got tires, and 4wd/SUVs are problems.

I live in the city. THere, the biggest problem you see is cars without good tires. Not even snow tires, but even good tires. And added to the fact that we get so much snow, that cars don't have he ground clearance needed. Half of the cars I see stuck aren't even because of tires, but because the people are too lazy to shovel their driveways, or the street department hasn't plowed a road yet, and their bumper is lower than the snow.

SUV's/4 WD trucks are issues on the highways/rural roads because they drive as fast as they can, but are too stupid to realize that they can't stop.

I have lived in Eire my entire life, and gone to school, work, even shopping in blizzards that would have crippled cities for weeks. Heck, here, if we get a blizzard, we go to the mall. ( I don't go to the mall anymore, I'd be perfectly happy never to go to the mall for the rest of my life).

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Originally Posted by Noah_Zark

^^^THIS.

Vehicle handling in snow and icy conditions is a direct function on the grip of the tires and the weather-compromised surface, and the fraction of the vehicle's weight on a given tire. So-called "all season" tires are not, when facing PA winters. IMO and experience, ice-type snow treads with high silica in the rubber and thousands of sipes are the way to go. Technology (VSC and other computer controls) may be able to compensate to a degree, but it still boils down to pure physics. Last summer I watched a vehicle with traction control sit and spin two tires on wet grass and topsoil, and heard the ABS doing its thing to compensate. Three of us ended up pushing the car onto the gravel.

I've used Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice, Bridgestone Blizzaks, or Nokia Haakaapellitta R2 and R3 winter tires on all four corners of vehicle since the early 1990s, and studded snow treads before that. The ice-type snow tires go in the direction I point the vehicle, and provide for controlled braking whether I do it, or the ABS does. IMO, a set of these types of tires are low-cost insurance against a collision that at best is costly in terms of vehicle repairs, let alone human body repairs or worse. A few times my ice-type snow tires gave me the ability to steer / accelerate out of the path of a driver who was sliding totally out of control, avoiding an accident.

Some of you might say, "I've run all-seasons since the early 90s and never had problems," and I'm happy for you. That tells me that either a) You don't live where it gets particularly nasty on a regular basis (north of I-80 for example), b) You simply don't drive when it is shitty, or c) You haven't yet wrecked.

Noah

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We got caught in Erie for Christmas a couple years back when they broke every record in the book for snow fall. We were in a FWD sedan with some of the best all season tires I've ever had in my life (Goodyear Tripletreads. Shame on you Goodyear for discontinuing them and "replacing" them with a much shittier tire.) While we did amazingly well on the barely plowed major and side roads, I can tell you even full snows would still have been sketchy. I do agree with you though, that people far too often don't consider matching their tires to the conditions. You can almost blame tire manufacturers for that, for making "all seasons" that *can* do remarkably well in bad conditions, but the people are too stupid to realize that just means you can go longer with them, not that they're a replacement for actual snow rated tires.

Individuals who live in Erie are stunning and brave.

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Originally Posted by JAKIII

Individuals who live in Erie are stunning and brave.

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When I was a kid, I remember playing on literal mountains of snow at the West Erie Plaza & Kmart parking lots, and riding my bike across the frozen bay. And we had awesome snow forts.

Now in Pittsburgh, people freak when I take them across the ice at Lake Arthur.

My pick up travels effortlessly in even the deepest snow. I take my time though and give space to other vehicles but I will go around a vehicle that looks like they just graduated from a Florida driving school. One thing I have noticed though is that the same people that wear masks while driving even at this stage are the same ones that think because they have a 4wd SUV they can drive at summer highway speeds.