Re: LIVE: 2 dead, 2 wounded in shooting at Greenwood Park Mall; shooter is dead
The mall owners will want the person who killed the shooter brought up on charges for violating their no guns policy.
Re: LIVE: 2 dead, 2 wounded in shooting at Greenwood Park Mall; shooter is dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Emptymag
The mall owners will want the person who killed the shooter brought up on charges for violating their no guns policy.
And that should be immediately thrown out unless the mall owners are held liable for letting a mass shooter in their mall.
Re: LIVE: 2 dead, 2 wounded in shooting at Greenwood Park Mall; shooter is dead
"Keep and bear arms"?
"Shall not be infringed"?
I missed the exception for property owners...
Re: LIVE: 2 dead, 2 wounded in shooting at Greenwood Park Mall; shooter is dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
claudel
"Keep and bear arms"?
"Shall not be infringed"?
I missed the exception for property owners...
In public or your own space, sure. But I respect that a private property owner would prohibit firearms on their private property. I just choose to not give them my money.
Re: LIVE: 2 dead, 2 wounded in shooting at Greenwood Park Mall; shooter is dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JaySmith
In public or your own space, sure. But I respect that a private property owner would prohibit firearms on their private property. I just choose to not give them my money.
I'd argue it's a public meeting place. A "town square" of sorts.
Re: LIVE: 2 dead, 2 wounded in shooting at Greenwood Park Mall; shooter is dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
claudel
"Keep and bear arms"?
"Shall not be infringed"?
I missed the exception for property owners...
The 2A is a contract with the Government, not with other citizens.
Property rights supersede your rights, except when the Feds/States/Local have imposed laws protecting certain rights/privileges of yours while on other peoples' properties.
Re: LIVE: 2 dead, 2 wounded in shooting at Greenwood Park Mall; shooter is dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Emptymag
The mall owners will want the person who killed the shooter brought up on charges for violating their no guns policy.
It's Indiana. GFZ signs have no legal weight. Property owners or their designated representatives can enforce trespass, but that's it.
Fuck GFZ signs in general. If asked to leave, then leave, and don't go back. It's that simple.
Re: LIVE: 2 dead, 2 wounded in shooting at Greenwood Park Mall; shooter is dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
knight0334
The 2A is a contract with the Government, not with other citizens.
Property rights supersede your rights, except when the Feds/States/Local have imposed laws protecting certain rights/privileges of yours while on other peoples' properties.
Yep, and for the most part I agree.
I would like to see the laws and designations of "private" property that is open for public use by invitation (you unlock the doors to your business, you're inviting the public at large to enter) changed such that during "normal business hours" 'private' property is treated more like 'public' property when it comes to citizen (and 2A) rights, especially in the case of malls or other congregations of businesses. Yes I recognize that it could create an interesting layering effect of restrictions, but at least starting the conversation would be good.
Re: LIVE: 2 dead, 2 wounded in shooting at Greenwood Park Mall; shooter is dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sota
Yep, and for the most part I agree.
I would like to see the laws and designations of "private" property that is open for public use by invitation (you unlock the doors to your business, you're inviting the public at large to enter) changed such that during "normal business hours" 'private' property is treated more like 'public' property when it comes to citizen (and 2A) rights, especially in the case of malls or other congregations of businesses. Yes I recognize that it could create an interesting layering effect of restrictions, but at least starting the conversation would be good.
Believe me, I'd love to be able to carry everywhere and not worry about violating property rights.
However, if the states start protecting 2A rights in such manner, then that opens the doors for 1A rights on same properties. You could then have atheists/satanists protesting churches, WHILE ON THE CHURCH property. Or having picketers on a factory's property, blocking management/temps from working, or otherwise impeding production.
It is a can of worms that is best left sealed. If a business does have those anti-gun policies, you're better off voting with your wallet or some other means(picketing from public RoW) to get them to change. Or you can tempt fate like how the samaritan did in this event(I'm not suggesting that you violate any law).
Re: LIVE: 2 dead, 2 wounded in shooting at Greenwood Park Mall; shooter is dead
Quote:
Originally Posted by
knight0334
Believe me, I'd love to be able to carry everywhere and not worry about violating property rights.
However, if the states start protecting 2A rights in such manner, then that opens the doors for 1A rights on same properties. You could then have atheists/satanists protesting churches, WHILE ON THE CHURCH property. Or having picketers on a factory's property, blocking management/temps from working, or otherwise impeding production.
It is a can of worms that is best left sealed. If a business does have those anti-gun policies, you're better off voting with your wallet or some other means(picketing from public RoW) to get them to change. Or you can tempt fate like how the samaritan did in this event(I'm not suggesting that you violate any law).
I agree it's an interesting conundrum, one that Smarter Brains than I would need to wrestle for quite a while. I would like to posit that, conflating 1A and 2A rights as you did isn't accurate; entities denying 1A activity (protests, picketing inside or on property) would be denying disruptions of normal commerce for those entities. Whereas concealed or open carry of firearms does not directly disrupt normal commerce. My presence with a firearm does not physically prevent others from engaging the business in their normal activities.
