Heritage rough rider cylinder lock up issue

Picked up a 4” 6 shot rough rider recently to plink and squirrel hunt with (because, well, 12ga is just so hard to use for squirrel :facepalm: :rolleyes: ). Having some minor issues with it and wondering if anyone else has run into this...I’m not a revolver guy, have shot them but this is pretty much the first one I’ve owned that I actually bought with a purpose in mind.

Yes, I’m aware it’s a cheap gun. That was the point. It’s gonna get abused...pot metal pistols 🤣

22lr cylinder works perfectly fine, no issues.

The problem lies with the 22 WMR cylinder. Sometimes after 3-4 rounds it locks up and won’t advance the cylinder. Almost like a case is hanging up. So far it’s happened mainly with CCI Maxi Mags and I noticed 3-4 of them had cases split/ruptured at the strike point. Switched to Aguila rounds and same thing but not as bad. Maybe 1-2 faults. It only seems to happen until things “warm up” after a few cylinders run thru it. I’ve made sure that the rounds are seating fully and after I run 1-2 through the cylinder it’s almost like I’m kicking the rounds out and causing the jam due to recoil.

Any ideas? Maybe I’m limp wristing? Bad/old ammo?


Inspection of the cylinder looks ok. No burrs, timing seems ok. I did file down a small burr at the loading gate As well as a lip inside the top of the cylinder (casting remnants).

Heating up and expanding is my guess

Gets a bit better when it heats up though...which is what throws me off

I have a Heritage .22/.22WM. The cylinder-to-frame and cylinder-to-forcing cone dimensions are very generous, to put it kindly.

When the cylinder locks up, take a look at the shell you just fired. It is probably backed out of the chamber and jammed against the recoil shield. Slip a knife blade behind it and lever it forward. If heat lessens the problem, the chambers are growing a couple tenths (.0002) in internal diameter allowing the fired brass to float.

Try different ammo. The different bullet design and lube on its surface might make a difference.

Persevere for a bit hoping to break it in. Polishing the chambers might help. If all fails, I guess it's the hated return to manufacturer for correction.

On second thought, split cases is unacceptable. The gun should not be fired. Contact Heritage.

Thanks Bang. I’m going to take it to the range this week and see if filing down the burrs/ledges made any difference, song with blue loctite and retightening on all the screws. I did end up digging some brass/powder/what have you out of my left index finger though from the 2 range trips I’ve made with it so if that happens again I’ll scrap the thing or throw it in the trunk of the car for worst case scenario.

Really don’t want to ship back to heritage/Taurus at this point...not sure it’s really worth it tbh. It’s splitting cases at the rim, rest of the case is ok. If it happens again I’ll try and grab a pic. This is my first 22mag, so I’m not sure what to expect... I think you are correct though, it does seem like the brass is floating out of the cylinder when it fires. There have been a couple that wouldn’t come out of the cylinder without using the table edge to force the ejector rod.

It’s really a shame, it’s a damn accurate pistol at 10-15 yards once you adjust the vent front sight And figure out the pattern hold on it

In the pistols defense also, I did take to the range without a detailed first time out of the box cleaning and lube job. All I really did was run a couple patches thru it with cleaner and lube til they came out clean. After league match on Sunday though, and filing/loctite I stripped it down completely and hit everything with cleaner and lube.

Took to range today after cleaning things up last weekend. 50 rounds of Cci maxi mag HP with no Noticeable issues. 36 rounds of Aguila silver eagle and this happened (2-3 other cases sprayed a bit also). 3rd round of my last cylinder. Completely wrapped itself around the cog and locked the cylinder this time, disassembly was required. Still only having issues with the magnum cylinder. Put 100+ 22lr thru with zero issues.

https://i.ibb.co/4RymvqR/A6799688-20...7640199-F0.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/hXM6V8h/B52-D982-F-...-B52-E6-AB.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/J3TjrgN/D85-AC963-7...11338-F204.jpg

Note: that is my trigger finger and yes those are powder burns also. There’s about 4 spots on my support hand that got sprayed. Still digging powder and lead out of my hands. Real kicker is this happened 8” from my face from a rest and I felt the splash on the cheeks.

Calling to bitch at heritage tomorrow and demand my money back. For what I paid I’ll be going to buy a Ruger wrangler with whatever I can get out of this (or a replacement one that goes up for sale immediately). I don’t trust this gun or anything from heritage/Taurus anymore.

WOW! The gaps fore and aft must be astronomical, plus the cylinder is probably sliding. I don't know if Taurus is actually making these Heritages, but I'm thinking there are guns out there having the same potential to injure and there should be a recall on any with axial play or unacceptable gaps.

ETA: Interesting discussions dating back to 2011:

https://www.google.com/search?q=heri...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bang

WOW! The gaps fore and aft must be astronomical, plus the cylinder is probably sliding. I don't know if Taurus is actually making these Heritages, but I'm thinking there are guns out there having the same potential to injure and there should be a recall on any with axial play or unacceptable gaps.

ETA: Interesting discussions dating back to 2011:

https://www.google.com/search?q=heri...hrome&ie=UTF-8

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Yup...it’s gonna go back, if I can ever get in touch with them. Every call so far to their customer service department has yielded no luck. Either not open or phones are broken due to technical difficulties.

Now that you mention it about the cylinder sliding, for shits and googles I watched everything as it was moving and I cycled it and it does look like it’s sliding on the cylinder rod. I can watch the cylinder rod rotate when the mag cylinder is in. It doesn’t do it with the 22 Long rifle cylinder so I wonder if it is a timing issue.

Pretty sure they are owned by Taurus and I wouldn’t be surprised if they manufacture them too now...at the very least they share an address with them 🤷🏼*♂️

If it is a timing issue there should be lead shavings in front of the cylinder before the forcing cone. If you see any excessive splatters or grey marks it is timing.

My only other guess is that it is a headspace issue. Put the .22LR cylinder on and put a round in it (outside and be careful!). Use a spark plug feeler gauge and see how much space there is behind the cartridge and the rear of the frame. Then try the same with the mag cylinder. I have no clue what the spec clearance should be but my guess is they should be close if not the same. If the clearance is larger you will need to do some research on what it should be.

Whatever you find this pistol needs to go back for repair. This would just be for your info and maybe to help them troubleshoot.

I’ll have to take a few pics of the cylinders and post them. You may be on to something. There looks to be some leading on the front face of them after shooting

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bang

Try different ammo. The different bullet design and lube on its surface might make a difference.

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So I found this thread while searchin for posts about jamming Heritage pistols.

After fireing a friends rough rider 6" I fell in love and bought (that day) a 4.75".....

My first trip to the range was mixed.....

Ran 18 22Mags thru it and WOW>...loved it.

Then started running some 22LRs (remington Viper) thru it and jamming every other round....

Was worried it was the pistol....and it bummed me out big time.....but....

Took it out today with the same friend and some new ammo to try. This time I had some Aguila and he had some Amcor......

NEITHER of those jammed ....not even once......I ran 6 pf the AMSCOR and about 50+ of the aguila....NO ISSUES.

Then I ran some of the viper.....FIRST SHOT JAMMED. Switched back to Aguila...no issues.....back to viper...JAM.

Then my friend tried the viper rounds in his 6".....JAMMED.

So in MY case its the ammo....

We looked closely and the Viper ammo is bulging (after being fired) at the top right under the rim/head. And that bumps it up just enough from the port in the cylinder to jam when it advances.

Here are some pictures we took.

The red circle is the two fired rounds...first one fired and sort of got tight, second one jammed.

The bulge can be seen on the LEFT spent case.....compared to an unfired Remington Viper. Cheap brass maybe?

Attachment 139278Attachment 139279

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shadango

So I found this thread while searchin for posts about jamming Heritage pistols.

After fireing a friends rough rider 6" I fell in love and bought (that day) a 4.75".....

My first trip to the range was mixed.....

Ran 18 22Mags thru it and WOW>...loved it.

Then started running some 22LRs (remington Viper) thru it and jamming every other round....

Was worried it was the pistol....and it bummed me out big time.....but....

Took it out today with the same friend and some new ammo to try. This time I had some Aguila and he had some Amcor......

NEITHER of those jammed ....not even once......I ran 6 pf the AMSCOR and about 50+ of the aguila....NO ISSUES.

Then I ran some of the viper.....FIRST SHOT JAMMED. Switched back to Aguila...no issues.....back to viper...JAM.

Then my friend tried the viper rounds in his 6".....JAMMED.

So in MY case its the ammo....

We looked closely and the Viper ammo is bulging (after being fired) at the top right under the rim/head. And that bumps it up just enough from the port in the cylinder to jam when it advances.

I will post some pictures we took.

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Welcome to the forum.

I think the Viper 22 lr has a longer overall length than most 22lr ammo. I think they are the same length as cci stingers.

I haven’t shot this since the 22wmr case blew up in my face. I seriously don’t trust it and it makes a better club than it does a pistol. It’s been sitting in my safe collecting dust until I can actually get ahold of someone at heritage to warranty return it. Half the time their phones are out of order, rest of the time it goes to voicemail and I don’t get a call back.

May just pawn this off at a gun shop At a loss and put the money into a Ruger single action...

FWIW, dicks sporting goods in hazelton has a ton of these rough riders in stock for $129 right now

Also, FWIW (and I wish I’d have known this when I bought mine): if you buy the standard 22lr only model, in the box is a card that you can send in and get a 22wmr cylinder for ~$30. Had I known I wouldn’t have spent $280 on this (full msrp). Cest la vie I suppose

Quote:

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Originally Posted by McSull

Welcome to the forum.

I think the Viper 22 lr has a longer overall length than most 22lr ammo. I think they are the same length as cci stingers.

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I compared the Aguila "super extra" 22LR rounds (left in pic) that fire great thru the gun and the Remington Viper 22LR round that jams (right in pic).....

Look the same to me.....?

Attachment 139309

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodwanderer

I haven’t shot this since the 22wmr case blew up in my face. I seriously don’t trust it and it makes a better club than it does a pistol. It’s been sitting in my safe collecting dust until I can actually get ahold of someone at heritage to warranty return it. Half the time their phones are out of order, rest of the time it goes to voicemail and I don’t get a call back.

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I would be freaked out too....have you tried different? The WMR rounds I have (Hornady Vmax 30gr) fire GREAT....have run 30 of them thru and they shot perfect.

Sucks to hear that the Heritage folks are slow to respond.....I just had my wife's Ruger LCP2 at the factory.....the ejector "disappeared" last time she shot it.....they replaced the whole slide and barrel......got back to me FAST at the beginning, and got the gun back to us fast....6 days total round trip.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodwanderer

May just pawn this off at a gun shop At a loss and put the money into a Ruger single action...

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If you do, please tell them about the issue.......if someone else gets the gun and gets seriously hurt somehow due to this, that would suck worse.

I think when it comes to firearms, we are stewards.....someone will have our guns after we have them , and since they can easily kill or maim, it is our duty to take care of the problem if we find one......not preaching, just saying think about if it was your kid who got your gun after you without knowing.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodwanderer

FWIW, dicks sporting goods in hazelton has a ton of these rough riders in stock for $129 right now

Also, FWIW (and I wish I’d have known this when I bought mine): if you buy the standard 22lr only model, in the box is a card that you can send in and get a 22wmr cylinder for ~$30. Had I known I wouldn’t have spent $280 on this (full msrp). Cest la vie I suppose

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I bought mine at Dunhams in my neck of the woods.....the cocobolo heavy grain grips and both cylinders....they said list was $219, their reg price was $199......and I got it on sale for $175

I didnt see a coupon in my box -- of course it had both cylinders.....I agree....could have saved a few more bucks that way.

But then the only ones that had the grips I fell in love with came with both cylinders. And I also wanted the 4.75" rather than the 6". My grip is pictured below.

I just got a text from RK GUNS that they have the Ruger Wranglers on sale for $179Attachment 139310

I bought one of these in the summer of 2019 with both cylinders from PSA for $120 and it’s been a POS from day one. It’s so bad that shooting a 3 zone target from 5 yards might get you one hit out of 6 and that hit will be about 10” off from your point of aim. Yeah I know there are some good ones out there but I can only go by my experience and mine sucks hard.

I bought it for my 8 year old son to learn to shoot pistol on but that would just cause sheer frustration in a child. I’ve had other shooters give it a go who have experience with single action revolvers and same issues. I shot a Ruger bearcat and that belongs to a neighbor. Close in size and shape to my RR and it’s a fine piece that shoots great.

I would call heritage but they don’t pay return shipping either way for repairs so to drop another $60-$70 on a $120 POS isn’t worth it to me. I still believe that budget Guns can be good but they have to come from a large manufacture like Ruger or Smith who are going to back them up with the same service as their higher end products.

Just my .02

I find it disturbing that with the loose tolerances on these pistols Heritage just sends you a 22 mag cylinder without even checking to see if it fits the frame. But apparently they don't check for fit at the factory either.

If you decide to sell the gun I would just throw away the 22 mag cylinder. The pistol is functions and is safe as a .22LR and that is how you should sell it.

Looking at the face of both cylinders, there’s heavy lead fouling on both 22lr and 22wmr faces. Which makes me think this is a combination of timing and tolerance issues.

I haven’t had any issues with 22lr in it, only 22wmr. Different ammo makes it a bit better, until things start getting hot after a few cylinders of mag ammo.,,

Regardless I still don’t trust shooting it. It’s only good out to about 10-15 yards anyhow, and past 5 yards it shoots 12” groups. Even after tweaking the front sight (that at least got me on paper at 5 yards lol)

I should have bought the Ruger for $179 instead and put the other $100 into more ammo. Realistically I don’t need 22wmr in a pistol, given the ballistics suck coming from a short barrel.

Good to know they won’t pay for shipping either way. It’ll sit in the safe then until I either blow it up or melt it down. Or it becomes a last resort GO bag gun. I’m not dropping another $70 to ship this back for repair

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodwanderer

Looking at the face of both cylinders, there’s heavy lead fouling on both 22lr and 22wmr faces. Which makes me think this is a combination of timing and tolerance issues.

I haven’t had any issues with 22lr in it, only 22wmr. Different ammo makes it a bit better, until things start getting hot after a few cylinders of mag ammo.,,

Regardless I still don’t trust shooting it. It’s only good out to about 10-15 yards anyhow, and past 5 yards it shoots 12” groups. Even after tweaking the front sight (that at least got me on paper at 5 yards lol)

I should have bought the Ruger for $179 instead and put the other $100 into more ammo. Realistically I don’t need 22wmr in a pistol, given the ballistics suck coming from a short barrel.

Good to know they won’t pay for shipping either way. It’ll sit in the safe then until I either blow it up or melt it down. Or it becomes a last resort GO bag gun. I’m not dropping another $70 to ship this back for repair

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Not sure you will find a better experience with Ruger either......as far as issues (great support though).

I just got my wife's LCP2 back from them after the extractor, pin and spring all disappeared one day at the range.

Turns out MANY people are having the issue. Quality control?

Again, my buddy and I both shot our Heritage 22LR and 22MAG Friday....no issues at ALL except when using the ONE ammo.

We shot at 25 feet and had tight enough groupings for it to be fun...not 12" like you said you are having....I still wonder if its not your ammo.

The ammo we used -- Hornady VMAX 22mag and Aguila "22 super extra" and we had good luck. The remington Viper 22LR, LOCKS EVERY TIME. No idea what the diff would be. My bro-in-laws LCP 22 jams constantly on one brand of ammo (not sure what it is) but is fine with others he has tried....It stinks that with ANY gun you might have issues with ammo......I am just saying that maybe its not 100% the gun.

Hopefully going to shoot some more 22LR and what I have left of the MAG today and report back if any issues.....crossing fingers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shadango

I compared the Aguila "super extra" 22LR rounds (left in pic) that fire great thru the gun and the Remington Viper 22LR round that jams (right in pic).....

Look the same to me.....?

Attachment 139309

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The rim looks thicker. Not saying it's the issue, just noticing.

I’ve run aguila silver Eagle (which was what blew up in my face), cci maxi mags, Remington, federal, Winchester, all in 22mag. They all did the same thing and blew cases. The aguila ran the best out of all of them, until that case blew up in my face.

All of them still ended up with me digging lead out of my hands as well

Something else I’ve noticed also with 22mag is that I tend to get a lot of unburnt powder grains collecting in the cylinder after firing. Makes me lean towards a timing/tolerance issue.

When a .22 rimfire blows out at the rim, it's because that section is unsupported (surrounded) by the chamber while the pressure is still high. That can happen if the case head-to-recoil shield gap is too large. Firing pin drives the entire cartridge forward and fully chambers the round initially. The cartridge fires, the crimp slightly delays bullet movement, bullet moves forward, equal and opposite actions take place and if there isn't enough pressure to lock the case against the chamber wall to keep it in place (or the chamber wall is too far away), the case moves rearward and contacts the recoil shield. If the gap is too large, the case moves back to the point where case wall is exposed, and blows out. It might be that a .22LR in a revolver may not develop enough pressure or maintain the pressure long enough, to expand the case enough to get a purchase on the chamber wall, and reliance on the recoil shield is the norm. If so, that gap tolerance is even more critical.

In the days when kitchen gunsmiths improved the 1911, some didn't understand that reshaping the feed ramp on a ramped barrel exposed the case wall ahead of the case web, leaving it poorly supported. When it blew out, it blew downward through the rounds stacked in the magazine, making for interesting surprises.

I got my magnum cylinder with the $30 coupon and had the same thought. S&W would say they need to fit a cylinder to the gun.
I chalked it up to the accuracy of CNC machining invoking confidence in the product. Duhh....

These Heritage Rough Rider sixguns have proved themselves dangerous and it's interesting there has not been a concerted effort to remedy, either by consumers or the company.

Just to add more of my $.02.....was out last weekend with a buddy and played with the rough rider in both 22LR and 22WMR again. I shot 100 aguila "super extra" 22LR rounds and 18 CCI maxi mag hollow point 22WMR rounds

No issues at all.

My buddy has the same gun (just the 22LR) as does his son....no issues at all like what is being discussed.....

Like any other product I guess there could be some bad ones out there....

Other than the Remington viper 22LR jamming up, loving mine so far....

If it hasn't been mentioned already.... The timing has to me off to blow a case out the back. The pressure is trying to go somewhere, since the bullet couldn't go forward. That's why you are picking lead out of your hands. Some lead went down the barrel and some out the cylinder gap. Find a .22 diameter rod and carefully place it down the bore. I suspect one or more places on the cylinder face will hang up.

Revolver manufacturers should be required to supply a range rod for safety, instead of that ridiculous pos lock that just teaches kids how to pick it open.