(Ar15)Close range sighting technique clarification?

[topsykretts]

I just got done watching the magpul dynamics art of the tactical carbine II video. In one part Chris Costa demonstrated a technique he learned in the military for using the front and rear sight in a fashion where the rear sight is held so that the top most part of the 'ring' of the rear aperture is held below the front sight post..

I'm not sure if I fully understand this and I'm wondering if anyone more familiar can explain it or illustrate it somewhat better? Specifically, in this technique, what am I focusing on to aim, and where would my rounds be impacting in relation to that thing that I'm focusing on. This is intended to be used within 10m.

Thanks.

[Lycanthrope]

Well let me put it to you this way.........

Sights are just a couple of reference points that you verify by shooting to figure out where the bullet impacts.

At close range on a AR15......often the sights are several inches above the barrel/bore. That means that the bullet will impact low at 10 m.

Scoped shooters will use mil dots or other refereces to figure out bullet impacts at various yardages. For irons you don't often have several points of reference (You don't have several pins for yardage like a bow hunter). So.....you just figure out what the sight must look like to score hits at close range. On an A2 configuration, that means the front sigth post is going to be higher than center when looking through an aperature.

Lycanmakesense?thrope

[he11zna]

I've also heard it referred as "lollipop-ing" the sight.

XS makes a rear aperture that has a notch for this reason.




Knowing your zero and POA/POI at common distances is more beneficial IMO.

[topsykretts]

Originally Posted by he11zna

I've also heard it referred as "lollipop-ing" the sight.

XS makes a rear aperture that has a notch for this reason.




Knowing your zero and POA/POI at common distances is more beneficial IMO.

I may pick one of those up, but we still have to go out there and zero my rifle first heh. Spring is here I think so hopefully the weather will be good for that soon.

But as for lollipop-ing, do I have the use of it understood? You hold the rear sight underneath of the front post, and focus on the post? I was wondering about this because it also seems that at extremely close ranges, one could do the same and instead of focusing on the post, focus on the front sight itself. At under 5m I'd think that would be easier to do under stress and there would be less of an height over bore offset.

Oh and another thing, in the magpul video, he also recommended painting the sight with some bright green paint, but I'm not sure if he meant painting the top of the rear sight or the front sight. I should probably rewatch that segment at some point tomorrow to see if I just misunderstood.

[Mtn Jack]

Jeez how about not making this so complex, and use reverse Kentucky wind age. Just hold a little low with your same sight picture. That is what ammo and range time is for. This is not rocket science. Practice makes for good shots. Have fun and try it. Mtn Jack

[topsykretts]

Originally Posted by Mtn Jack

Jeez how about not making this so complex, and use reverse Kentucky wind age. Just hold a little low with your same sight picture. That is what ammo and range time is for. This is not rocket science. Practice makes for good shots. Have fun and try it. Mtn Jack

That is simple enough for me.

Thanks.

Maybe I misunderstood and this technique is more for use with red dots, because thats what was being discussed at the time.

[buzztime]

Originally Posted by Mtn Jack

Jeez how about not making this so complex, and use reverse Kentucky wind age. Just hold a little low with your same sight picture. That is what ammo and range time is for. This is not rocket science. Practice makes for good shots. Have fun and try it. Mtn Jack

If you zero your rifle at 50 meters for the improved BZO (Battle Sight Zero, a common zeroing distance for the AR-15), then the info in bold would be incorrect. At 10M, you would have to hold your normal sight picture approximately 1.5 inches higher than where you want the bullet to impact. This technique is called "hold over". The amount of "hold over" varies with distance to the target until you get to 50M, at which distance, your point of aim (aligned sight picture) will be the point of impact for the bullet. Its all very confusing to read about or watch on a video but once you get out to the range and actually do it, zeroing and hold over becomes much easier to understand.

[f14tcat691]

Within 10 meters I feel assured your brain will disengage and your trigger finger will engage so I highly doubt that you will remember any of this. I may be wrong but for the average person someone that close shooting back is probably going to freak out and start flinging rounds everywhere. Just IMHO.

[he11zna]

Originally Posted by Mtn Jack

Jeez how about not making this so complex, and use reverse Kentucky wind age. Just hold a little low with your same sight picture. That is what ammo and range time is for. This is not rocket science. Practice makes for good shots. Have fun and try it. Mtn Jack

Bingo! We've got a winner!
(It would actually be holding high as you're dealing with height over bore)

Knowing your zero and point of aim/point of impact, you should never be more than ~2" low.

Gotta get out there and stretch your AR's legs...

[synergy]

I've used the CSAT for a while, and I think it works very well.

Currently there are all kinds of cool guys who like running irons folded out of the way, and just running a dot. I don't sit in that camp, I keep irons ready to rock on my carbine. So, every carbine I have that wears irons will have a CSAT rear sight on it.

The CSAT is just a more precise way to send close range shots in. The technique Costa showed is the same idea, you just don't have the consistency/ precision that you can get using the CSAT.