Isosceles vs Weaver

[synergy]

Originally Posted by ByblosHex

A better question would be "Do you know any competition shooters who has used their firearm in a life or death situation in the past 10 years?"

Scott Warren, Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Dave Harrington, Kyle Lamb, and a shit load of other SF type guys that play "gun games" when they're not overseas shooting people.

[ByblosHex]

Originally Posted by synergy

Scott Warren, Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Dave Harrington, Kyle Lamb, and a shit load of other SF type guys that play "gun games" when they're not overseas shooting people.

That wasn't the point.... but I already went over that.

[synergy]

Originally Posted by ByblosHex

That wasn't the point.... but I already went over that.

That's not my point though.

Someone's job isn't an instant ticket to shooting like a demon.

You're average SWAT cop maybe trains once a month. But it's the QUALITY of that training that matters, and not every team is all that great. It's not that hard to out shoot guys on a full time team... just go train yourself!

About the SF guys... they're deploying within a year or so of enlistment and in the period of time they're learning drill and ceremony, first aid and combat casualty care, radio use, patrolling technique, evac procedures, vehicle use and repair, map/compass and GPS use, night vision use and in field repair, etc.

Their shooting schools last a few days/ weeks... then they go back to PT'ing and learning all of the other hundreds of skills they need to know before they deploy. Shooting is just one of their numerous responsibilities.

The guys I listed have the name recognition and reputation that they have because they put in their own time after hours to get better.

There is NO REASON why any of us can't meet or exceed that same level of proficiency with our firearms. Anyone motivated, willing to go out and learn from professional instructors, who's willing to put in the time to get better through dry fire and range time... can get just as good.

Multiple people in this thread have already done it.

There is this belief that guys who kick in doors are super-human shooters... they're not. They have other job responsibilities just like any of us. They "greats" are the ones who put in the time on their own to get better... just like any of us can (if we choose to). They typically receive better instruction than most LE departments provide, or that you might get through the NRA program... but the Vickers's/Defoor's/Northern Red's of the world are providing the same quality of instruction (or in all likelihood, better) that these SMU's are receiving.

I've been shooting about 5 years. I don't have any employer paying my way through training, or giving me ammo to shoot. I put in the time on my own to get where I am, and I know I can perform with a gun at a level above the average assaulter. I'm in no way suggesting that I can do what they can do... that's a whole different story. But give us the same shooting tests/ standards/ qualifications on the "range"... I know I can keep up just fine.

People just don't want to put in the effort, they put others on this false pedestal, and they never push themselves hard enough to get "that good".

The only barriers that exist to your success are the ones you make yourself. Obviously physical disabilities and such may enter in, but physical limitations aside, there isn't much standing in anyone else's way.

[orionz06]

In 2 years I have paid for 240 hours of training with an additional 80 or so hours of informal training/instruction. No reason to stop either.

[Gun]

Originally Posted by synergy

You're average SWAT cop maybe trains once a month. But it's the QUALITY of that training that matters, and not every team is all that great. It's not that hard to out shoot guys on a full time team... just go train yourself!


The only barriers that exist to your success are the ones you make yourself. Obviously physical disabilities and such may enter in, but physical limitations aside, there isn't much standing in anyone else's way.

QFT........

[arjohnson]

Originally Posted by orionz06

In 2 years I have paid for 240 hours of training with an additional 80 or so hours of informal training/instruction. No reason to stop either.

Not every civilian needs this type of training to defend themselves, to each his own I guess. I'm no pro and and far from it and with some practice and a little help one can become quite efficiant with a firearm, not as good as some of the best shooters in the world obviously.

Case in point a freind of mine is a grand master shooter and at one point was probably one of the best shooters in the country at gun games, he was self taught.

[Shawn.L]

wait.................


you guys dont carry swords ?

[ByblosHex]

Originally Posted by Shawn.L

wait.................


you guys dont carry swords ?

I do! PAFOA stands for "Pennsylvania Fighting-implement Owner's Association"!

[arjohnson]

Originally Posted by Shawn.L

wait.................


you guys dont carry swords ?

I do, but it only has a 3 1/2" blade and folds in half, does that count?

[orionz06]

Originally Posted by dgg9

If "relevant experience" is the go/no-go indication, then the only people you want to talk to are those with gunfight(s) of the same defensive, reactive, close quarters type as civilian DGUs, complete with handguns drawn from concealment holsters, under cover garments.

Actually, I personally don't know of ANY instructors matching that description. A few ex-LEO instructors may have been in gunfights a little like that. Southnarc?

Just saw this... He doesn't shoot weaver and made no comments a few weeks ago when myself and other posters in this thread were shooting how we shoot when he saw us do so. Armed Movement in Structures was the class, and FWIW I imagine a weaver shooter would have had their day wrecked when dealing with all sorts of corners and having to cover a pile of angles with the ability to transition between them rapidly. I could be wrong on that though as none were present to demonstrate.