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Old September 4th, 2011, 10:57 AM
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Post ACT 235

Hello guys. I have a question about the act 235. Is there any kind of weapons that you cant carry? I have heard so many stories of what to have and what not to have. I just looking for come clear and right information
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Old September 4th, 2011, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: ACT 235

Your employer will tell you what you can carry.
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Old September 4th, 2011, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: ACT 235

I work for myself. I provide armed security at nightclubs and bars. Philly pd has been a issuse latley say agents cant carry this or that. My question was bascailly saying Does it say any where excalty what we are certified agent can and cant carry?
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Old September 6th, 2011, 05:29 AM
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Default Re: ACT 235

I am Act 235 certified. You can carry on the job what you qualified, shot with at the 235 firearm portion of the class because, your test results is what the 235 instructor sent into the state and, that is whats on record.
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Old September 6th, 2011, 08:37 AM
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Default Re: ACT 235

I'm act 235 qualified and you are not limited to the gun you qualified with only...the employer will dictate the firearm you can use on their site. Some companies will have you requalify with their sidearm of choice as a pre-employment step they most of the time cover the cost.
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Old September 6th, 2011, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: ACT 235

If you're asking about carrying things other than a firearm, you're going to be subject to two things... first is the laws of the area where you're working. The second is what you (if you're self-employed) or your employer is willing to take on liability for.

By saying that you "work for yourself", I'm guessing that means that the clubs / bars where you provide security pay you as an independent contractor and not an employee. That means that you can basically carry whatever you're willing to take responsibility for. Keep in mind, however, that if you're carrying something like a TASER, which is illegal in Philly IIRC, then PPD can arrest you just like they would if you're Joe Citizen on the street. Furthermore, if you're carrying something like OC spray (which I think is also illegal in Philly), and you use it and get sued, you're going to have a hard time defending yourself in court unless you can demonstrate that you were properly trained / certified in its use. This goes for anything -- TASER, OC, cuffs, baton, firearm, etc.

If you are paid as an employee (ie, taxes withheld, etc.), then it's up to your employer to dictate what you can and can't carry.

I have heard people often say that you can only carry the model firearm that you were using during qualification. While I'm not certain, I'm reasonably sure that this is NOT true. I don't know if that info even gets sent in by the school, but it's certainly not printed anywhere on your card.

One last bit of advice... and keep in mind that IANAL and you should ask a lawyer to advise you... I believe that by the strict letter of the law in PA (Title 22, Private Detective Act of 1953), for you to provide security work as a contractor (ie, acting as your own "security company" and not as an employee), you need a private detective license in PA. The part of the law is as follows:


13. Licenses

(a) No person, partnership, association or corporation, shall engage
in the business of private detective, or the business of investigator, or
the business of watch, guard or patrol agency, for the purpose of
furnishing guards or patrolmen or other persons to protect persons or
property, or to prevent the theft or the unlawful taking of goods, wares
and merchandise, or to prevent the misappropriation or concealment of
goods, wares, merchandise, money, bonds, stocks, documents, and other
articles of value, for hire or reward, or advertise his or their business
to be that of detective, or of a detective agency, or investigator, or
watch, guard or patrol agency, notwithstanding the name or title used in
describing such agency, or notwithstanding the fact that other functions
and services may also be performed for fee, hire or reward, without
having first obtained a license so to do as hereinafter provided.


Look it up here: http://www.pali.org/docs/Pennsylvani...ct_of_1953.pdf

Also, I would seriously think about getting insurance. The rate of lawsuits for that type of work is through the roof.
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Old September 6th, 2011, 08:58 AM
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Default Re: ACT 235

Yes he would need to goto the local courthouse for where he lives and apply for a PI license and hearing the application is about 30 pages front and back and will cost at least 300$ off the bat. Trust me im sure of this I did it but keep in mind your resume must prove years of prior expierence that can be verified or you must have worked for a PI for 6 years or so, or basically have been a pd officer
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Old September 6th, 2011, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: ACT 235

Quote:
Originally Posted by WG68 View Post
I am Act 235 certified. You can carry on the job what you qualified, shot with at the 235 firearm portion of the class because, your test results is what the 235 instructor sent into the state and, that is whats on record.
This ^ is not correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrmm22sr View Post
I'm act 235 qualified and you are not limited to the gun you qualified with only...the employer will dictate the firearm you can use on their site. Some companies will have you requalify with their sidearm of choice as a pre-employment step they most of the time cover the cost.
This ^ is correct.

I asked this exact question before qualifying. They provided S&W 38 special revolvers, which I had no intention of carrying. I had my 92fs with me. The instructor said that everyone generally qualifies with the standard issue gun the class provided, but we could use any reasonable firearm.

The advice Tactical gave sounds worth of further investigation... I worked for a security firm for all of my details so I don't have first hand experience with going it on your own. But it sure as hell sounds like a clear case for an LLC and some real_boy insurance to back you up. Armed security is sketchy enough to begin with without that hassle.

Finally, when choosing a firearm to carry my first consideration has to be "what do you handle and shoot best/most comfortably" with a close second "choose a well established model and caliber with a history of police use." I say that because as sure as you might be that your FN_whatever shooting 5.7 has the best penetration in tests with bulletproof glass on youtube videos is the best defense gun ever made, 20K+ cops carrying glock 40 cals have a tiny bit more real world experience. Just sayin.
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Old September 6th, 2011, 09:38 AM
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Default Re: ACT 235

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrmm22sr View Post
Yes he would need to goto the local courthouse for where he lives and apply for a PI license and hearing the application is about 30 pages front and back and will cost at least 300$ off the bat. Trust me im sure of this I did it but keep in mind your resume must prove years of prior expierence that can be verified or you must have worked for a PI for 6 years or so, or basically have been a pd officer
I, too, went through the process to get the license. It wasn't easy or cheap, and chrmm22sr is right... you need to prove substantial prior investigative experience that is near impossible to get without working for dcumented years in the industry.

I'm guessing that a ton of people working in the capacity that the OP is (paid cash to work security at bars) do not do it legally. If an incident occurs where someone complains, files charges, sues, or you have to go to court as a witness for the prosecution, it opens the door for the wrong folks to know that you're not on the up-and-up. Even an LLC or tons of insurance aren't going to protect you if you weren't acting within the law.
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Old September 6th, 2011, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: ACT 235

As strictly a personal observation in the area where I work, very few security departments issue sidearms.
Most have policies that require a "police type", for lack of a better term, weapon.
With the pay scale for these jobs most employers understand that requiring a $10 to $13 officer to provide an $1000 Sig (by the time you add holster, mags et all) is just not possible.
Be carefull of the place that may require a specific caliber.
Other than that, a good 9mm, .40, .38, or .357 should do you well.
Stay away from the low end crap, like Hi Point, Lorcin, things like this that the person in charge of the company may laugh at. You may also want to stay away from exotics.
For costs, remember a few spare mags, a good holster, mag carrier, and good duty quality ammo.
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