Vehicle Tactics (Argive Defense Systems, www.argivedefense.com, Hellertown Sportsmen Association, Hellertown, Pennsylvania, $150.00): October 13th, 2007

[MarcS]

I just sent in my check this week. Who else is coming? This is the kind of stuff you can't just go to the range and practice.

[27hand]

This is good information and sounds like an exceptional class.

Some of this information was presented in a John Farnam class I took in 02. It was given in a one day additional class after his 2 day basic/intermediate.

Remember to cover every conceivable opening in your vehicle's heating system to prevent brass from getting into the blower/vent openings. I found brass months later in, around, and under my seats.

For a full day of dedicated vehicle tactics, $150 is a good buy.


MarcS, could you review this class when complete.
I reread the info being presented a few times and I doubt I would ever be in a "Team" situation but it couldn't hurt to review. I've taken other tactics classes which also involved teamwork and communication between team members. My wife (not a gun person) would listen to me and we have reviewed our strategy for when we are out together,but if i was in a car with anyone else, I would essentially be on my own.

I would hope that a one day class like this would not try to fit too much material that would not be retained by someone with a limited shooting background such as one previous handgun class.

The outlined item about calibers reacting to different parts of a vehicle surface is hard to imagine. My point is that the makeup of vehicles whether it be glass,sheetmetal, heavier metal framing or plastic differ so completely from vehicle to vehicle that the variables of penetration would be hard to give definite information on (shot angles for example). If you could, give us your take on the insrtuctors ideas.

As always, anyone training needs to practice what was presented. A statement that I myself do not adhere to regularly(but should).

later

27hand

[Robert Desrosiers]

This class is now full. Thank you all for your interest.

[RandomTask]

That's OK, I seldom need more than this, and I have the Land Rover to go with it:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/52736/...ensive_driving

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by 27hand

MarcS, could you review this class when complete.

Absolutely. This is my second vehicle tactics course, I took one with James Yeager and Tactical Response previously and it was excellent. From talking with Mr. Desrosiers, I believe that this should be an excellent course and offer not only good review but new learning opportunities as every instructor tends to have their own unique take on things.

That being said, I could answer many of your questions now, but will wait until i've completed this course to do so in depth. I will say that in my previous experiance, 9mm fully penetrated door-to-do both a mid 80's oldsmobile tank and an early 90's volkswagon rabbit econobox with similar ease. Cars don't stop bullets very well.

[Robert Desrosiers]

Gentlemen,

For those still interested we had two back out at the last minute. If anyone is still interested contact us ASAP.

[MarcS]

take the class people, as my signature says.....

You don't get to practice shooting into and out of real cars every day.

[netw0rkpenguin]

I took the vehicle tactics class this Saturday. I spend a LOT of time in my car so it seemed logical. The class covered a lot of different scenarios from attempted carjacking to taking fire while stopped in the car. We practiced reacting on our own, eacting with another person, drills getting passengers out of the car and behind cover and how to properly use cover.

The class also covered how to try and avoid possible encounters altogether and disengage without shooting.
Some really interesting stuff was punching with the pistol, center axis relock and bailing out of the car. It never occurred to me before to practice getting the seat belt off (even though I was caught in 6 point restraint harness after a crash before), getting out of the car without the door coming back and hitting you and bailing out from the passenger seat through the driver side of the car. As with any good class it covered the basics that should have been obvious but weren't until somebody told them to you and got you to run a few practice drills.

A lot of time was spent around our own cars with inerted guns practicing punching with he gun and tracking a threat around the car. Doing it in somebody else's car is significantly different then driving somebody else's car.

Seeing what different rounds do and don't do to a toyota was fun too . It was freaky to see how a bullet actually ricochets off a trunk and travels parallel to it and how a gas tank lid deflected a round.

The class flowed pretty smoothly from pistol operator level 1 class that was taught a few weeks ago. Everyone who was complaining that there isn't any decent training in NEPA and wasn't there better stop complaining and go to the next class. The fees for the class are VERY reasonable (have you checked frontsite and blackwater prices lately??) and the stuff you learn is worth its weight in 50BMG.