Defensive Handgun Course, 3-9-08 @ Anthony Arms Indoor Range, West Mifflin PA (Personal Security Consultants, www.anthonyarms.com, 2980-A Lebanon Church Rd., West Mifflin, Pennsylvania, $100): March 9th, 2008

[fultonCoShooter]

200 Rounds of Ammo-Must be purchased at Range

thats Ghay

[Orive 8]

Mr. FultonCoShooter,

I don't agree with your statement of "thats ghay"

But I will agree that it is not ideal. If you are interested in the training but the purchase of the ammo from the range is the issue that you do not want to take the training, please feel free to call the range and ask for the Manager Mark Pasquale.

Explain your situation to him ( I would advise in a more civil manner than "thats ghay").

Either way, good luck with your training.

[TonyF]

I have to weigh in on this matter.

I must confess to having an irrational fear every time I post one of the F.I.R.E. Institute courses or even start a thread relating to a training issue that someone will interject a wise crack or sarcastic remark.

The reason it troubles me is because it is extremely difficult to attract students to formal training. And any kind of negative remark can and oftentimes does, change the complexion of the discussion and sway prospective students from enrolling.

I have a tendency to get defensive and I can sense a bit of that in Otto's reply. IOW I feel his pain.

Those of us who offer training courses are definitely not in it for the money. Yet the headaches associated with hosting and sponsoring them are enormous. I'm not suggesting that issues pertaining to a given class should go unchallenged. But in many cases, a PM rather than a provocative public post should be considered. Or at the least a valid and reasonable question as to "why" and then give the OP the benefit of the doubt and an opportunity to respond.

Some of the courses Anthony Arms offers are in many ways comparable to ours. However, they have allot more overhead and expenses than we do. Perhaps one of the ways they make up for it is requiring ammo be purchased from them but I'm sure there are also liability requirements from their insurance carrier.

The point is there are allot of choices and that is in the best interest of the consumer. If you don't want to be compelled to purchase ammo from AA, train elsewhere instead of lobbing a "hand grenade" into a thread.

OTOH, I'm sure some of AA's clientele prefers to train indoors as opposed to suffering through the possibility of inclement weather so they probably don't mind purchasing their ammo from AA.

The bottom line is that support for formal training among the general shooting public is already thread bare. We don't need the few opportunities we have to offer our services trampled on needlessly.

For those who may not know, I have been recommending to the F.I.R.E. Institute Board of Directors for the last three years that we shut down our operations due to lack of enrollment.

In our case, we volunteer our time, take off time from our jobs, don't get paid or even compensated for our expenses. The only benefit we get is the gratification of helping people learn how to properly defend themselves.

AA and Otto are actually trying trying to eek out a living. I'm sure glad I'm not in their shoes. The fewer trainers out there, the more expensive training will become due to simple "supply and demand" and that is not in anyone's best interest.

fultonCoShooter,

It wasn't my intention to rag on you for your post. It simply presented an opportunity for me to get this off my chest and to let people know that it is a sensitive issue to us.

[wryekid]

Just out of curiousity. How much is the ammunition and what kind is it? 9mm and .45 acp.

[Orive 8]

TonyF,

Thank you for the reply,

Just for your information and everyone else's, our company Personal Security Consultants, contract's out to Anthony Arms Indoor Range to provide the Defensive Pistol classes along with the bi-monthly Defensive Pistol Practice Sessions on Thursday nights.

I know that "buying the range ammo" is a sensitive subject for a lot of shooters. I have on several occasions discussed this with the management of Anthony Arms Indoor Range.

It is their policy; we live with it, and do what we can in order to provide training at this facility.



wryekid,

The ammo changes from time to time (depends on what shipment they get in), if you call the range, they will be able to give you the current prices.

Thank you again

[wryekid]

Thanks. I really don't mind buying range ammo. I believe rules are rules. I was just curious as to what the big deal is. As far as I am concerned, I think the
guy(s) putting on the clinic should make a little something as well.

Unfortunatley for me, I am involved in a variety of sports (coaching my son), and I don't generally have a lot of spare time. 1 day a month to shoot IDPA is going to be crazy for me. I usually practice shooting throughout the week (ie. lunch time Wednesday), my work is only a couple miles from our locol range.

I wouldn't mind attending one of these classes or buying range ammo.

Thank you for the time you and the others put in.

[fultonCoShooter]

Sorry i dont support Range Natzis who declare "you have to use my ammo"

I think its Ghey!

If ANY trainer needs a place to host a pistol class

Contact me and you can use my private range i have on my 11 acres in the country

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by fultonCoShooter

If ANY trainer needs a place to host a pistol class

Contact me and you can use my private range i have on my 11 acres in the country

You won't if you value your property.

Just how many millions of dollars in home owner liability insurance do you carry?

Does your policy cover negligence while administering firearms training courses?

Are you really willing to put your house and property on the line so people don't have to buy ammo from a range nazi?

Liability insurance is just part of the overhead that Anthony Arms has to pay for in order to remain in business.

[Emptymag]

Originally Posted by fultonCoShooter

Sorry i dont support Range Natzis who declare "you have to use my ammo"

I think its Ghey!

If ANY trainer needs a place to host a pistol class

Contact me and you can use my private range i have on my 11 acres in the country

Fulton,
This is a listing for a class. Your comments are out of line in this thread.
If you are not interested in the class,(and I know you are not)then please keep those types of comments to yourself.

I've made my feelings known elsewhere regarding this particular range that is being used for the class, and those comments, whether positive or negative will stay elsewhere... because they do not belong here.


Orive 8,
My apologies for not seeing this sooner.
At least it seems the worst to come of this has been additional exposure to your class.