Discussion about reinstating neg-rep

[Hawk]

I can tell you the reason I reassessed my approach was the neg rep. Granted the comments in the neg rep were concise and not just stupid insults. So if you are interested in an answer from someone who (I believe it was HC and 9-7) was smacked around as a youngin in these parts who turned himself around there's your answer. If you don't care and want to continue along the path of believing as you wish even though I stated clearly what helped to change my attitude so be it.



Damn it! Neither can I.

Makes no difference to me. I was hoping your reason for turning around and sticking around was greater than the rep system. Color me wrong.

[adymond]

Makes no difference to me. I was hoping your reason for turning around and sticking around was greater than the rep system. Color me wrong.

Minimize it all you want. The reality was I was getting negative feedback from members who this community clearly held in high regard. I assume you were hoping I would have had some sort of visitation that caused an epiphany which altered my behavior. Unfortunately in the real world behavior is modified by utilization of a combination of positive and negative enforcement. If I do well people praise me. If I do wrong there are consequences. If there are not consequences for my actions and I only have praise for my good actions why would I worry or care what happens when I behave badly?

[phillyd2]

Minimize it all you want.

Ignore him. Just having you admit that you were wrong is enough for the rest of us.

[normanvin]

Ignore him. Just having you admit that you were wrong is enough for the rest of us.

Heard that......

[mickey01023]

Was the reason Mickey and Adymond straightened out due to neg rep? Or was it perhaps they realized the value of the content of this site? IMHO, neg rep was not the reason they turned around and stuck around. I believe neg rep is nothing more than the act of a frustrated or irritated member who can't get satisfaction by merely posting their opinion on the subject.

To be more than honest when I was new and someone posted that they neg repped me, and someone would respond yeah I got him too. I didn't know what it meant lol didn't know what the user cp button was, didn't really pay attention to the reg or green bars. Thier was to much other stuff to look at like posts and other threads. So if i didn't know what it was and didn't care why will that stop a drive by troll that pops in a thread and says...anyone who owns a m16 is a killer waiting to be born or guns kill people and no one should have one?

[emsjeep]

To be more than honest when I was new and someone posted that they neg repped me, and someone would respond yeah I got him too. I didn't know what it meant lol didn't know what the user cp button was, didn't really pay attention to the reg or green bars. Thier was to much other stuff to look at like posts and other threads. So if i didn't know what it was and didn't care why will that stop a drive by troll that pops in a thread and says...anyone who owns a m16 is a killer waiting to be born or guns kill people and no one should have one?

Its an indication that people need not waste their time getting sucked into the posters vortex of stupidity. For new people, it says, "Don't listen to this poster, their advice may be wrong or dangerous." To lurkers and people just visiting for a day it says, "The views of this poster do not reflect the community." To other established members it says, "We already know this poster is an annoying pain in the ass, don't bother responding and do you best to control the misinformation via PM with unknowing members who may have read it and intend to act on the information as posted.

I see you have already started the, "You neg rep me so I'll neg rep you, game."

[SimplyComplicated]

Its an indication that people need not waste their time getting sucked into the posters vortex of stupidity. For new people, it says, "Don't listen to this poster, their advice may be wrong or dangerous." To lurkers and people just visiting for a day it says, "The views of this poster do not reflect the community." To other established members it says, "We already know this poster is an annoying pain in the ass, don't bother responding and do you best to control the misinformation via PM with unknowing members who may have read it and intend to act on the information as posted.

I see you have already started the, "You neg rep me so I'll neg rep you, game."

This. Negative rep has the effect of showing who is and who isn't trustworthy regarding the information given.

If you get bad advice on a - let's pick something random here, lawn care forum, the worst thing that can happen is you kill your lawn. If you get bad advice on a gun forum, the consequences can be a lot more dire.

[Nullifidian]

This. Negative rep has the effect of showing who is and who isn't trustworthy regarding the information given.

If you get bad advice on a - let's pick something random here, lawn care forum, the worst thing that can happen is you kill your lawn. If you get bad advice on a gun forum, the consequences can be a lot more dire.

That statement is true only when people are neg repped properly. This is likely far form the case.

Example, someone posts something political you disagree with. You neg rep them. It was their political opinion and has nothing to do with their trustworthiness or ability to give good advice with respect to firearms. Neg Rep is a surefire way to silence the minority in any political discussion and create an echo chamber. If you institute neg rep, you essentially curtail any real political discussion on the forum in lieu of an echo chamber.

The only way to stop that is to have mods reverse neg rep that was improperly dolled out. That's a moderator's headache and requires a great deal of effort. In the end, most people of political opinion that differs from the majority will simply no longer post for fear of being negged regardless of whether or not they think they can get a mod to reverse it. The effort will be great enough to have such marks reversed that it isn't worth the effort to post in the first place.

[ChamberedRound]

That statement is true only when people are neg repped properly. This is likely far form the case.

I disagree. In my experience, most people aren't looking to cause trouble. Only the truly bored, the malcontents, and the trolls revel in screwing with people.

Example, someone posts something political you disagree with. You neg rep them. It was their political opinion and has nothing to do with their trustworthiness or ability to give good advice with respect to firearms. Neg Rep is a surefire way to silence the minority in any political discussion and create an echo chamber. If you institute neg rep, you essentially curtail any real political discussion on the forum in lieu of an echo chamber.

Neg rep doesn't silence discussion, it actually helps discussion. First off, trolling to some extent is going to happen whether we like it or not, regardless of the vehicle (rep or post). Second, if we accept the above reality, most people would rather be screwed with privately than publicly.

When it happens publicly (in a post), it's quickly reported and dealt with by staff due to its visibility, but often not before a dozen others have piled on and completely taken a thread off-topic or required a mod to close it due to it being unrecoverable. When it happens privately (in rep), it's lack of visibility minimizes the impact on public discussions, keeping those discussions on topic, and the user(s) affected can still report the potential abuse for review by staff, and have the rep reversed if it's found to be in violation of site rules.

Note that I'm not advocating one form of trolling over another, they're all wrong, and are a violation of site rules. I am, however, recognizing that it's going to happen to some extent no matter how hard we try to stop it. When faced with such realities, it's better to manage the problem then to go on an exercise in futility and try to stop something which can't be stopped.

The only way to stop that is to have mods reverse neg rep that was improperly dolled out. That's a moderator's headache and requires a great deal of effort.

Neg rep has already been re-enabled, and staff collectively decided the effort necessary to handle reviewing such reports was worth the effort.

In the end, most people of political opinion that differs from the majority will simply no longer post for fear of being negged regardless of whether or not they think they can get a mod to reverse it. The effort will be great enough to have such marks reversed that it isn't worth the effort to post in the first place.

Neg rep has been back on for awhile now, and FWIW, I just haven't seen this happen. I've seen some pretty lively discussion on the usual topics of religion, race, politics, law, firearms, etc. Except now when I peruse those discussions, I see less one-off insults, back-handed compliments, and other posts which in the past tended to completely derail conversations to the point where either many would stop participating in them, or mods would have to close the thread.

[Carnes]

TIn the end, most people of political opinion that differs from the majority will simply no longer post for fear of being negged regardless of whether or not they think they can get a mod to reverse it.

No way, Jose.

Neg rep encourages thoughtful discussion and well reasoned arguments. Take it from a person that is pro-choice, pro drug-legalization, pro-amnesty and supportive of a number of other things that make 'the majority' here froth at the mouth.

There is a disparity in the fact that the views of the majority can be supported by crap-cake BS 'bumper-sticker' arguments while the minority view supporters will not be able to get away with spewing that kind of crap. It's not really fair, but at least it cuts out some of the tripe, and it has zero negative impact on individuals that actually think a bit about their position and put forth a smiddgen of effort in presenting their argument in a meaningful way.

If rep were based on disagreement with the majority, I would be so far in the red that there would be no hope of me ever getting out, but fortunately that's just not the way it works.