Discussion about reinstating neg-rep

[LittleRedToyota]

imho, the whole rep system should be done away with.

the reasons for giving out rep (+ or -) vary so much from individual to individual that the rep points end up being meaningless.

some people give out rep for posting good information. others give out rep for funny posts. others give out rep just for OCing. others give out rep to their friends. others give out neg rep just because someone disagrees with them...even if the other person has actually made a valid, logical argument (and is actually right), etc. etc.

thus, imho, rep rannkings don't end up being very meaningful. some of the people who know most what they are talking about when it comes to firearms, tactics, law, etc. (which is what reps on a board like this should be about) are relatively low in the rep rankings. so, what good are they really?

if the rep system is to stay, though. i say do not bring back neg rep. i've seen too many newbies come on and ask a legitimate question or state a legitimate opinion and get gang neg-repped for it. that's bad, imho.

[NikeBauer21]

imho, the whole rep system should be done away with.

the reasons for giving out rep (+ or -) vary so much from individual to individual that the rep points end up being meaningless.

some people give out rep for posting good information. others give out rep for funny posts. others give out rep just for OCing. others give out rep to their friends. others give out neg rep just because someone disagrees with them...even if the other person has actually made a valid, logical argument (and is actually right), etc. etc.

thus, imho, rep rannkings don't end up being very meaningful. some of the people who know most what they are talking about when it comes to firearms, tactics, law, etc. (which is what reps on a board like this should be about) are relatively low in the rep rankings. so, what good are they really?

if the rep system is to stay, though. i say do not bring back neg rep. i've seen too many newbies come on and ask a legitimate question or state a legitimate opinion and get gang neg-repped for it. that's bad, imho.

I'd neg rep you for that right now if I could.

[tlgpa]

Maybe to stop some of the trolls, you have to have a minimum post count, like maybe 100, to be able to give out negative rep.

This is a good idea. Or maybe even 200. Some trolls are persistant.

Now, if +/- rep were public and visible to all, that would be an entirely different ball game.

I agree. If you're gonna neg rep someone, others should be able to see it and put it in perspective. Let everyone see who may be abusing neg rep.

[ChamberedRound]

Just wanted to comment on what I've seen so far for everyone's benefit. I'll disclaim now that no decisions have been made; I don't want my comments to be seen as slanting the vote.

Maybe to stop some of the trolls, you have to have a minimum post count, like maybe 100, to be able to give out negative rep.

This already happens to a certain extent, as one needs to gain enough reputation themselves in order to give rep that affects rep count. When one's rep is zero or less, their positive rep has no effect.

I frankly don't understand the need for either rep or no rep.

That being said, my first major contribution here ended up turning into a poo slinging contest between myself and another guy that soon had his account and his sock puppet account banned.

Negative reputation would have smacked me in the face before I even got established on the forums.

I voted no' as I don't see a need for it either way.

This was a common problem with neg-rep, and one of the reasons why it was removed in the first place. However, it is something that can be reversed by an admin upon review.

Now, if +/- rep were public and visible to all, that would be an entirely different ball game.

I'm not sure if vBulletin supports this, but it's a suggestion which can be investigated.

[thefirstndsecond]

what keeps.some one you simply disagree with from giving you negative Rep? I enjoy adult knowledgeable discussions. I do not like name calling, childish attitudes. Will negative Rep help this? Or will negative Rep make posts more about agreement than discussion? I voted yes for negative Rep. But am now rethinking the vote.

[TXDMERC73]

i say no neg rep, cuz when someone dont like the post they neg rep them into orbit its too childish, the ban hammer works better! Neg rep only makes matters worst not better, Neg rep is no different then name calling.

[Guns4Fun]

what keeps.some one you simply disagree with from giving you negative Rep? I enjoy adult knowledgeable discussions. I do not like name calling, childish attitudes. Will negative Rep help this? Or will negative Rep make posts more about agreement than discussion? I voted yes for negative Rep. But am now rethinking the vote.

Just like + rep, you can not neg rep someone multiple times in a row.



I found neg rep to be a valuable asset to the forum. It is my opinion that it helped to set the "tone" of the site. If you have people receiving neg rep, it makes them think about why they got it and then adjust future posts accordingly.

However, I have absolutely zero faith that this poll will do anything to reinstate neg rep. It will only work to further the divide between the "posters" and the "management" of the board.

But at least the impression of "change" is being put out there again .

[str8shooter]

I voted no.

If someone takes issue with a comment I've made, I'd much rather have them quote me, demonstrate why my thinking is flawed, and put it out there for all to see rather than responding with an insult and giving me neg rep. I think it's a very effective way of weeding out intelligent, thoughtful responses by someone who disagrees for valid reasons, from a knee jerk emotional reaction that can otherwise be expressed as personal assault via the back door neg rep comments.

I've made my share of erroneous assumptions and comments based on how I interpreted a post, and many other times my written words are not received as I had intended because of the lack of vocal inflection in a written statement. I've also strongly disagreed with some comments and felt my reasons were valid, but rather than hit the neg rep button and move on, I openly expressed my reasons for disagreeing with a public post, thus giving the OP the opportunity to publically give me a slap upside the head for being a moron, but also to present a point of view the OP and maybe others interested in the thread hadn't considered.

IMHO, the neg rep system does nothing to deter trolls, because by nature, they don't give a shit what people think. They post inflammatory comments to see how many people they can rile up, and they typically bow out of threads when they feel they've accomplished their goal of derailing it and cause other members to start giving neg rep to each other while they sit on the sidelines and laugh.

It also gives members a backdoor way of making a statement they know would either earn them an infraction or at a minimum, would be flamed if stated openly.

A lot of proponents of the neg rep system feel that it will help us "police our own", and would result in more civil discussions amongst those with dissenting views, which in turn might result in fewer posts being reported removing some of the burden from the mods. I personally don't subscribe to that notion, but I've only been a consistant contributer to this and two other forums (which have a totally different rep system), so I'm willing to concede that arguement to those who belong to multiple forums and have seen examples where a neg rep system does help keep thread comments from getting to the point where a legitimate report of post to the mods is warranted.

Conversely, I whole-heartedly support the positive rep system. The count doesn't really matter to me, but I appreciate that there's a way for someone who has read a comment I made to let me know they've gotten something from it, even if it was just a chuckle, without having to post a comment to the thread just to say it. I'm not so shallow that I need public praise, but I'll admit that it does make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside when I get positive rep with short note letting me know why. Obviously it could be done with a PM, but the rep button is easy for the repper, and lets me know which post generated the response.

At times I've even gotten positive rep with a note along the lines of "I still completely disagree with you, but at least you presented your opinion in a respectful manner". For me that goes a lot farther toward reminding me to play nice than a neg rep comment telling me I'm a "brainless man-child living in a fantasy world", um, not that that's ever happened.

[tsor39]

First, Dan did what he felt was best for the forum for which he has started. I feel that whatever he does is his right as the creator of the forum. This forum has provided me with a source of a large amount of useful information without alot of useless research.

We can only thank Dan, all the mod and admins that work to keep this place as useful as it is. I have received neutral rep for some of my comments, but I stand by them and will continue to do so. If you can't accept the opinons of your peers, then the easy thing is to not put something out there to be criticized.

For the trolls, you have them anywhere you go. I have met in person or via other communication members of the forum, and appreciate the person that I have met based on the impression they have made, not on the positive or negative rep they have.

[ScaredOnce]

With that said, I am hoping that this thread will address another concern among the membership, namely the lack of member consultation, by opening a poll and discussion to ask: are you in favor of, or against, reinstating neg-rep?

There you go talking about "members" again... So confusing...


But, I think what you did here was a nice gesture whether or not it really means much in the end. It is important to foster a condition of mutual ownership and a feeling of mutual respect with the "members of the group of people who use the the forum".


We'll see how this goes, but I do appreciate the effort. Thanks, CR. ( i have my eye on you..! )