What would you have done?

**swack** · May 9th, 2010, 10:04 PM

First some background:
This exact situation happened to me a few years ago.
When it happened, I was out of the country (in the Caribbean), so having a gun was out of the question.
Me, my girlfriend and another couple we were close friends with went on a trip to one of the Caribbean islands. The condo was set up similar to a hotel room, in that the main bed (where my girl and I were sleeping) is located about 8 ft in front of the door leading into the condo.

Enough back story, now to the event.

I awoke very early in the morning, about 5:30 am to my girlfriend screaming like a banshee. When I looked over, still very groggy, I saw the silhouette of a man standing directly up against her side of the bed staring at her. At this point I was extremely disoriented, and now frightened and furious, so I responded by screaming “Get the F*** out of here!” at which point he backed up against the wall then turned and ran. I immediately grabbed my diving knife (7in titanium blade with serrated back) and chased after him to insure that he was leaving the premises. It took me a decent bit of time to get out of bed and to the door, so by the time I made it out of the condo he was long gone. I locked the door and went back inside to check on the girls. (also the other guy who was with me completely froze when he heard the screaming, great help).
After speaking to the cops and everything it was determined that the guy who broke in was a druggie that worked for the management company, hence how he had keys to the condo to get in undetected. Luckily no one was hurt and the girls were a little freaked out but OK. Also the management company changed all the locks that day.

I was wondering what you guys would do in this situation, both with and without access to a firearm and how you think I handled it (with what little I did).

Sorry, I just realized how long this turned out to be.

**ungawa** · May 9th, 2010, 10:20 PM

I would have done pretty much the same thing. I would hope I would have gone for my weapon first, but based on the fact that the guy had the drop on you it might have been wise to give the verbal command before going for the weapon. Tough call.

**wa3ra** · May 9th, 2010, 10:20 PM

Since you could not have a firearm, you did the best you could do in removing the threat.

I don't imagine that prison on a Caribbean island would be any more pleasant than one in, say, Turkey...

**max384** · May 9th, 2010, 10:21 PM

In your situation, I think you did very well. There wasn't very much more you could have really done. You awoke, still groggy, and yelled at him... then grabbed your closest available weapon. You then ensured he had left the premises... then checked on the women and the 'man.'

The only thing I might do differently (Monday morning quarterbacking this, of course) is enlist the help of the other 'man' in the hotel room with you before chasing after him.

If I was in this situation and I had a firearm with me... I'd likely be making two calls. 1) 911 and 2) a lawyer. Once someone breaks into my home (or in this case a hotel room) their life is no longer precious to me... only mine and my loved ones is at that point. They already made their choice. If he ran, I would not shoot him in the back... but if I got the gun in my hand and pointed at him and he wasn't already running or doing any other action indicative of surrender (assuming already yelling at him to get away), I'd take that as a sign of aggression. If I had more standoff distance, I would be more verbal prior to pulling a trigger... but with someone that close and next to my significant other... he's past the escalation of force procedures.

**XD45** · May 9th, 2010, 10:28 PM

sounds like you handled it the best you could given the options available to you in the Caribbean.

People don't always think of it, but most of those islands are pretty dangerous. I love St. Thomas(actually leaving thursday to head down), but i've seen some pretty shakey things go on down there. About 2yrs ago I turned into a little alley behind some shops and such to throw up(lovely story this is), could then tell something was going on at the dead end and once my eyes adjusted a bit more I could see it was 2 guys ontop of a lady. I yelled for the people I was with, which the guys heard and that sent them over the end wall, one still pants down.

Do you mind giving the island/condo name so others can hopefully avoid something similar?

**mike_yorkPA** · May 10th, 2010, 12:08 AM

yea most likely would have done the same, i also thought about one of these door stop alarms, since i travel A LOT
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000YNR4M/?tag=cheap023-20

**emsjeep** · May 10th, 2010, 12:28 AM

...dead bolt the door....always lock internal doors and windows. In that state there isn't much you are going to do if someone is intent on hurting you.

**Broncitis** · May 10th, 2010, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by max384

In your situation, I think you did very well. There wasn't very much more you could have really done. You awoke, still groggy, and yelled at him... then grabbed your closest available weapon. You then ensured he had left the premises... then checked on the women and the 'man.'

The only thing I might do differently (Monday morning quarterbacking this, of course) is enlist the help of the other 'man' in the hotel room with you before chasing after him.

If I was in this situation and I had a firearm with me... I'd likely be making two calls. 1) 911 and 2) a lawyer. Once someone breaks into my home (or in this case a hotel room) their life is no longer precious to me... only mine and my loved ones is at that point. They already made their choice. If he ran, I would not shoot him in the back... but if I got the gun in my hand and pointed at him and he wasn't already running or doing any other action indicative of surrender (assuming already yelling at him to get away), I'd take that as a sign of aggression. If I had more standoff distance, I would be more verbal prior to pulling a trigger... but with someone that close and next to my significant other... he's past the escalation of force procedures.

I'll Monday morning QB this reply (quoted above and bolded for the part that caught my attention) a bit further...

IMO, you need to be 100% sure it is a threat. Granted, it may not be as easy as to do as I just typed it, but to flatly claim you'd be calling 911 and a lawyer could have put you in a worse situation than the OP.

In this case the suspected perp was supposidly a druggie. However, change the scenerio just a bit to one that was presented to us as a supposidly real situation one of my trainers had when he was a LEO:

Middle of the night, you hear some things go bump, then breaking glass.

You jump out of bed, groggy and half out of it and grab your gun and head downstairs where you see the outline of a man and yell for him to get the f** out. He then says, "no, you to get the F*** ou!". You shoot, he dies.

Justified?

Yes, maybe, maybe not depending on the state (this took place in CA).

However, in this case, the guy was drunk and his buddy that dropped him off turned up the wrong street and dropped him off at the wrong house that looked like all the rest. Hence the bumping into furniture that was in the wrong place and the breaking of a vase.

When confronted, the drunk thought someone was in *his* house. Was he a threat? It seemed like he could be, but likely not a real one.

Now the shooter (even if free of criminal liability) has to live with the thought that he shot a guy from the next block over who was possibly the father of his kids friends. He also has to face the potential financially ruining lawsuits and court battle as well as all the other bad things that come with using lethal force.

Don't get me wrong, all these bad thing are better than being a victim, but only when your life is in immenant danger.

Did the OP see any type of weapon? Did the perp make any verbal threat or movent that was threatening?

I think the OP handled it fine BTW. I guess my point is that when I hear/read people say they'd shoot (without much more explination or detail), it reminds me of the story I described above that was told to us out at Front Sight.

Sometimes there will likely be no clear answer or not enough time to even consider much of this at all, but just seeing an outline of a person is not good enough reason to shoot! I was thinking it was going to be the other guy they were on vacation with that was sleep walking or something!

This can be very dangerous when you are not in your own home, or if you have guests at your home!

Clearly identify the target and then clearly identify it as a threat worth shooting (and turning your world upside down for afterwards for) before doing so.

**emsjeep** · May 10th, 2010, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Broncitis

[snip]

...but just seeing an outline of a person is not good enough reason to shoot!

I don't think he said that? I also think that he judged an intruder in close proximity to be a threat. Right or wrong he made the assessment and identified his target.

**Broncitis** · May 10th, 2010, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by emsjeep

I don't think he said that? I also think that he judged an intruder in close proximity to be a threat. Right or wrong he made the assessment and identified his target.

I was not refereing to the OP, but to Max384's comment on the OP's scenerio where that is what the OP awoke to see.

I re-read Max384's post and see that he did go into more detail as to if the perp did not submit when directed to, but I focused on the following comment

If I was in this situation and I had a firearm with me... I'd likely be making two calls. 1) 911 and 2) a lawyer. Once someone breaks into my home (or in this case a hotel room) their life is no longer precious to me...

in reference to the OP. In the OP's case, the perp did run when confronted, so therefore, I did not see the justification for the above comment and then missed how he clarrified it afterwards.