Transfer of Pistol from NYS to PA

[Manchester]

My dad recently died and I wanted to transfer his pistol to my son in PA. Both myself and my son have pistol permits in PA. The sheriffs dept in NYS stated that the executor of the estate must sign a letter transfering the pistol to my son. We must then bring the pistol into the sheriffs department so that they can cancel my father's permit and then an FFL will be called and the pistol can legally be sent to my son.

By the way we must call the Sheriff's dept and tell them that we are leaving with the pistol and when we would be at their offices time wise so that they can grant amnesty for transportation to the sheriff's dept.

Just posting this so others see what has to be done in NYS.

[Scrumpyjack]

Condolescences on the loss of your father.

The procedure you listed is the proper procedure for bequeathing a firearm from NY to PA. Make sure the executor brings a certified copy of the death certificate, your father's NY permit and has your correct name and address.

Schedule an appointment with the sheriff's office. Some of the rural counties only have one deputy that handles firearms issues and he may be off the day that you decide to go up there. Also, check your father's permit before you go to the sheriff's office, he may have more than one listed on there. This was the case when my father passed away a few years ago. He had bought one that he didn't tell me about and I had to go searching the house to find where he had hidden it.

Now, on a side note....if your father lived in a border county, you can ask the deputy that handles firearms if they will grant you amnesty to the border. Depending on the county, they could choose to follow you to the border. There is no requirement for registration in PA and father to son transfers have no requirement to be recorded and therefore no need to ship FFL to FFL if you have NY's blessing to drive them out of their state.


Now if you want to talk about sweating profusely on a 20 mile drive...

I went back up a month or so after Dad died to bring the safes and rifles to my house. My buddy had the two safes in his truck, no problem. I had 32 long guns and over 8,000 rounds of ammo in my wife's minivan.

[Joel Dreggie]

Now, on a side note....if your father lived in a border county, you can ask the deputy that handles firearms if they will grant you amnesty to the border. Depending on the county, they could choose to follow you to the border. There is no requirement for registration in PA and father to son transfers have no requirement to be recorded and therefore no need to ship FFL to FFL if you have NY's blessing to drive them out of their state.

I dont think you got that right. I understand that father son or grandfather to grandson in this situaition without transfer is totaly legal here in PA. But im pretty sure if the grandfather, son, or father is in a different state then the person its being gifted to, then it must go thru an FFL.

m not 100 percent, im sure somone will correct me if im wrong


BTW sorry for your loss OP

[tl_3237]

I dont think you got that right. I understand that father son or grandfather to grandson in this situaition without transfer is totaly legal here in PA. But im pretty sure if the grandfather, son, or father is in a different state then the person its being gifted to, then it must go thru an FFL.

m not 100 percent, im sure somone will correct me if im wrong


BTW sorry for your loss OP

You are correct - the gifting of a handgun across state lines without an FFL is a violation of 18 USC 922(a)(5).

However if the transfer is from an estate by bequest or other distribution, then there is a exception to such a transfer as far as the Federal law. This does not pre-empt state laws which must be followed, inheritance or gift.

Its unclear as to the chain of transfer in the OP. If the OP is a Pa resident and he received the handgun as an inheritance then he must follow NY law to get the handgun to Pa. Then, assuming his son is a Pa resident, he can gift the handgun in Pa without use of an FFL.

Bottom line - who inherited the handgun from the estate is the controlling question.

[AlinBucks]

I am curious about a similar situation. My mother is getting on in years and has a number of handguns registered to her permit in NYS. Would she be allowed to bring her guns into PA during a visit and give them to me without going through an FFL? I asked a friend of mine who is one and he didn't seem to think so since there is not a sale in PA, just a gifting from parent to child, which does not require a formal transfer. If there is a law being broken, who is doing it, her, me or both?

I am sure there is a problem with it on the NY side but once the guns are in PA and in my possession, is there anything they could do?

[tl_3237]

I am curious about a similar situation. My mother is getting on in years and has a number of handguns registered to her permit in NYS. Would she be allowed to bring her guns into PA during a visit and give them to me without going through an FFL? I asked a friend of mine who is one and he didn't seem to think so since there is not a sale in PA, just a gifting from parent to child, which does not require a formal transfer. If there is a law being broken, who is doing it, her, me or both?

I am sure there is a problem with it on the NY side but once the guns are in PA and in my possession, is there anything they could do?

NOT LEGAL - this would violate Federal law 18 USC 922(a)(5). Transfers (including gifting) between residents of differing states requires the services of an FFL. Mom would be in violation. There may be issues for you if you are considered complicit in its violation.

If you went to NYS and picked them up you would be in violation of NYS law and 18 USC 922(a)(3) when you returned to Pa while Mom still violates (a)(5) above.

In addition, even if you try to do this, Mom may have issues with Pa transport legalities. I'll defer on the NYS transport issues.

[Greywolf]

I dont think you got that right. I understand that father son or grandfather to grandson in this situaition without transfer is totaly legal here in PA. But im pretty sure if the grandfather, son, or father is in a different state then the person its being gifted to, then it must go thru an FFL.

m not 100 percent, im sure somone will correct me if im wrong

You are 100 percent correct. ALL interstate transfers must go through an FFL. The only exception is a bequest -- an inheritance. If a firearm is left to someone in a will, it can be transferred interstate with no FFL.

In the case of the OP, however, it appears the grandfather left the guns to his son, who lived in the same state as the grandfather. So far, so good. But it was the father (the middle generation) who inherited. For him to then pass them along to the grandson (the third generation), they are not "bequests," they are simply gifts and must be handled exactly the same as any other gifted firearm -- and since the grandson is in another state, that's an interstate transfer and must go through an FFL.

The fact that they are old guns that have been in the family for awhile does not make the transfers "bequests." The same applies to AlinBucks. His grandmother is still alive, and she is in another state. She can certainly give him the guns, but they will be interstate transfers (NY to PA) and must go through an FFL. If they are handguns, the FFL must be in PA.

[AlinBucks]

NOT LEGAL - this would violate Federal law 18 USC 922(a)(5). Transfers (including gifting) between residents of differing states requires the services of an FFL. Mom would be in violation. There may be issues for you if you are considered complicit in its violation.

If you went to NYS and picked them up you would be in violation of NYS law and 18 USC 922(a)(3) when you returned to Pa while Mom still violates (a)(5) above.

In addition, even if you try to do this, Mom may have issues with Pa transport legalities. I'll defer on the NYS transport issues.

Thank you, one additional question/clarification:
Section (A) under both (3) & (5) seems to provide an exception:
" (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires
a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other
than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or
receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to
purchase or possess such firearm in that State"

Since I am the executor of her eventual estate (she is not well and I think I will have to deal with this in the next year or so) and she is leaving them to me, wouldn't this provide the exception for me to take possession and transport them home to PA?

[tl_3237]

Thank you, one additional question/clarification:
Section (A) under both (3) & (5) seems to provide an exception:
" (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires
a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other
than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or
receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to
purchase or possess such firearm in that State"

Since I am the executor of her eventual estate (she is not well and I think I will have to deal with this in the next year or so) and she is leaving them to me, wouldn't this provide the exception for me to take possession and transport them home to PA?

Yes as far as the Federal and Pa laws are concerned. I'll defer as to the procedure under NYS laws.

[AlinBucks]

The fact that they are old guns that have been in the family for awhile does not make the transfers "bequests." The same applies to AlinBucks. His grandmother is still alive, and she is in another state. She can certainly give him the guns, but they will be interstate transfers (NY to PA) and must go through an FFL. If they are handguns, the FFL must be in PA.

Sorry for the redundancy, I must have replied about the same time.

I am wondering if this would make it simpler in my case. I asked originally on a gift to avoid problems with it being part of an estate, but if that makes them a bequest and I am the one receiving them, doesn't that make it easier? BTW, I am the son, not grandson and would inherit them directly.