Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Expungement & References - Philly LTC Application

    I looked around in old threads for about an hour or so about this question, but nothing seemed on point, so I thought I'd start a new thread (selfish right? lol)

    I have completed my Philadelphia LTC App except for my reference section. I have my references lined up and they are ready to sign the forms.

    My dilemma? I have been arrested. While the application I sign ask if I have ever been convicted, which the answer to is a bold-faced NO, I have been arrested.

    How should my references answer this question? There is an explanation section. Should I advise them to simply mark write "all arrests expunged to my knowledge" on the reference form? Since an arrest does not disqualify me, do they have to explain?

    If no one has had experience with this situation, could they refer someone I can speak to?

    Or should I just pony up the couple of bucks for the Florida permit. The recent news coverage of the Florida permit "loophole" (I hope my quotations signify how annoyed I am about the story) has me a little nervous about going through the process.

    My father was a gun enthusiast before he passed and lately I have had the urge to take up one of his favor hobbies.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Expungement & References - Philly LTC Application

    what did I miss? It asks if you have ever been convicted? or arrested? if convicted then why would you say any more?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Expungement & References - Philly LTC Application

    Quote Originally Posted by Dukearache View Post
    I looked around in old threads for about an hour or so about this question, but nothing seemed on point, so I thought I'd start a new thread (selfish right? lol)

    I have completed my Philadelphia LTC App except for my reference section. I have my references lined up and they are ready to sign the forms.

    My dilemma? I have been arrested. While the application I sign ask if I have ever been convicted, which the answer to is a bold-faced NO, I have been arrested.

    How should my references answer this question? There is an explanation section. Should I advise them to simply mark write "all arrests expunged to my knowledge" on the reference form? Since an arrest does not disqualify me, do they have to explain?

    If no one has had experience with this situation, could they refer someone I can speak to?

    Or should I just pony up the couple of bucks for the Florida permit. The recent news coverage of the Florida permit "loophole" (I hope my quotations signify how annoyed I am about the story) has me a little nervous about going through the process.

    My father was a gun enthusiast before he passed and lately I have had the urge to take up one of his favor hobbies.

    Thanks in advance.
    They could use an arrest to disqualify you under the "character" clause, and I wouldn't be surprised if they did. However, if they know about the arrest, and the question isn't answered with an honest "yes", they could disqualify you under the "character" clause again.

    It sucks. I would have your references answer honestly, with an explanation, and see what happens. If they deny you, you can appeal. Then if you don't win the appeal get a Florida permit.

    Also, did you get a copy of the "interview" questions? If anyone in Philly has them I could really use them for my LTCF report I'm preparing. (See here: http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...t-page-22.html)

    I've attached the Philly application for anyone else who wants to see exactly what the OP's referencing.
    Last edited by IronSight; September 11th, 2010 at 01:08 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Expungement & References - Philly LTC Application

    I see that Philly is using an outdated (by a couple years) app.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Expungement & References - Philly LTC Application

    I see that the Reference form asks "Has the applicant ever been arrested?"

    The applicant question just asks about convictions, unless I missed something; which is odd, because the Philly PD has routinely denied applicants for making false statements regarding arrests that didn't result in convictions. I suppose that they ask during the oral interview.

    To be honest, the real purpose of the "arrest" question is to trick applicants into making a false statement. People who know that arrests alone have no legal effect might say that they were not arrested, if they were acquitted or never even went to trial.

    The Philly government doesn't want to issue you the state-mandated LTCF, so they will do everything they can to trip up as many people as possible. They know that some percentage of denied applicants will drop it. Some will appeal, but lose. Some will appeal and win, but that's a smaller number than the total number of applicants, and hey, it's not like it's the bureaucrats' money being pissed away pointlessly, right?

    And every denied applicant who carries anyway will, if caught, become a prohibited person who can't even own a gun, much less carry one.

    The ruling class in Philly doesn't want the little people walking around armed, where they pose a threat to drunken Lacrosse bullies.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Expungement & References - Philly LTC Application

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    I see that the Reference form asks "Has the applicant ever been arrested?"

    The applicant question just asks about convictions, unless I missed something; which is odd, because the Philly PD has routinely denied applicants for making false statements regarding arrests that didn't result in convictions. I suppose that they ask during the oral interview.

    To be honest, the real purpose of the "arrest" question is to trick applicants into making a false statement. People who know that arrests alone have no legal effect might say that they were not arrested, if they were acquitted or never even went to trial.

    The Philly government doesn't want to issue you the state-mandated LTCF, so they will do everything they can to trip up as many people as possible. They know that some percentage of denied applicants will drop it. Some will appeal, but lose. Some will appeal and win, but that's a smaller number than the total number of applicants, and hey, it's not like it's the bureaucrats' money being pissed away pointlessly, right?

    And every denied applicant who carries anyway will, if caught, become a prohibited person who can't even own a gun, much less carry one.

    The ruling class in Philly doesn't want the little people walking around armed, where they pose a threat to drunken Lacrosse bullies.
    Great post and info!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Expungement & References - Philly LTC Application

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    I see that the Reference form asks "Has the applicant ever been arrested?"

    The applicant question just asks about convictions, unless I missed something; which is odd, because the Philly PD has routinely denied applicants for making false statements regarding arrests that didn't result in convictions. I suppose that they ask during the oral interview.

    To be honest, the real purpose of the "arrest" question is to trick applicants into making a false statement. People who know that arrests alone have no legal effect might say that they were not arrested, if they were acquitted or never even went to trial.

    The Philly government doesn't want to issue you the state-mandated LTCF, so they will do everything they can to trip up as many people as possible. They know that some percentage of denied applicants will drop it. Some will appeal, but lose. Some will appeal and win, but that's a smaller number than the total number of applicants, and hey, it's not like it's the bureaucrats' money being pissed away pointlessly, right?

    And every denied applicant who carries anyway will, if caught, become a prohibited person who can't even own a gun, much less carry one.

    The ruling class in Philly doesn't want the little people walking around armed, where they pose a threat to drunken Lacrosse bullies.
    When I went to submit my application, the detective went through the form and proofs of resident and told me that I was missing one of the proofs. She could've sent me away, but went ahead with the interview, asked me if I live nearby, and if so come back with the proof and see her directly (without waiting in the long line). I also left the "reason" part unchecked, she asked me the question and immediately followed with "self-defense?" and filled that in for me.

    Maybe the people behind the scene nod and wink and conspire to deny as many license as possible, I don't know. My experience was biased to be the opposite.

    OP, I would leave the question unanswered and ask during the interview. Whoever interviews you will go over the form for incompleteness and will assist you with it. Since the 2 references are parts of the application, the arrest question should've been answered, and you should be able to discuss with the detective what to put down.

    Good luck with it.

    Al

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Expungement & References - Philly LTC Application

    Quote Originally Posted by mythaeus View Post
    When I went to submit my application, the detective went through the form and proofs of resident and told me that I was missing one of the proofs. She could've sent me away, but went ahead with the interview, asked me if I live nearby, and if so come back with the proof and see her directly (without waiting in the long line). I also left the "reason" part unchecked, she asked me the question and immediately followed with "self-defense?" and filled that in for me.

    Maybe the people behind the scene nod and wink and conspire to deny as many license as possible, I don't know. My experience was biased to be the opposite.

    OP, I would leave the question unanswered and ask during the interview. Whoever interviews you will go over the form for incompleteness and will assist you with it. Since the 2 references are parts of the application, the arrest question should've been answered, and you should be able to discuss with the detective what to put down.

    Good luck with it.

    Al
    Does Philly give applicants a copy of the standard "interview" questions? I'd love to get my hands on a copy of it without filing a Right-To-Know request, although I have no problem filing that if needed.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Expungement & References - Philly LTC Application

    Quote Originally Posted by IronSight View Post
    Does Philly give applicants a copy of the standard "interview" questions? I'd love to get my hands on a copy of it without filing a Right-To-Know request, although I have no problem filing that if needed.
    No, but remember a lot of the questions were straight off the form.

    Al

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Expungement & References - Philly LTC Application

    Thank you all for the input.

    Just to clarify, the reference application will not be filled out by me, but by a third-party reference.

    How likely is it that the Philadelphia sheriff will deny my application because of an expunged arrest? I've never been convicted.

    If that is the case, should I get references who do not know I have been arrested? They can then answer the question truthfully (they don't know I have been arrested, and if they don't ask, they aren't lying) and then the issue will never come up except by my admission (I would never lie about it, they are expunged and have no adverse effect on employment, etc., but if I lie, then I screw my credibility up permanently).

    So, based on people with experience in Philadelphia, how likely is that the Philadelphia Police Department will deny an application based solely on an expunged arrest?

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