Shooting Stance

[Glocker]

I have been reading "Stress Fire," by Massad Ayoob.

I like the way he recommends being familiar, and fluent in the Weaver, Chapman, and the Isosceles stances. He compares this to the Boxer that is better prepared for the fight when he is able to incorporate one of many moves during any given fight.

I found it interesting and informative that he promotes/recommends the Isosceles stance during times of stress (actual battle). He goes on to explain the pros of using the Isosceles stance as compared to the other two stances, and the reasons for this particular stance holding up during times of stress.

I have personally found that the Weaver stance works better for me at the range, but now I understand that I should force myself to become comfortable with the Isosceles, for the reasons Ayoob goes on to explain.

Has anyone else found that they are especially comfortable with any one particular stance?

[MarcS]

In my opinion, stance is of overrated importance in combat shooting. If it's good, you're not moving fast enough. the realities of fighting (stress, movement, obstacles) almost never lend themselves to getting a perfect, or even good stance.

That being said, some techniques are better than others depending on the environment. in confined spaces like an automobile or cramped structure, the fully extended Isosceles stance i use on the range is simply not going to work so it is modified, i may not shoot from full extension, i may blade my body to fit batter, i may cant the gun to one side to shoot around an obstacle. I still make good hits because guns shoot where their pointed regardless of what you are doing with your body.

So, to sum it up, try and keep a good base, point the gun towards the bad guy and whatever you do with the rest of your body shouldn't matter.

[Thekatar]

MarcS made a pretty good post. I must say that my own observation is that a classic Weaver tends to lend itself well to fighting while the modern iso stance tends to lend itself well to shooting.

I'm not intentionally trying to be obtuse, but I find myself studying iso after being initially trained in Weaver. Movement is very important, and Weaver lets you move laterally in a smooth fashion, while iso lets you advance and withdraw smoothly.

A perfect stance probably is overrated in real life. What can I say?

[FUNDAMENTALS]

I have not found many definitive reviews of actual "shootings" as to what
stances were used by non law enforcement officers. Most of the reviews
and statistics come from the reviews of officer involved shootings. While
checking on a police web site, I ran into an interesting article:
"Shooting on the move; using your instincts" www.policeone.com
Article by Michael T. Rayburn.
A second artile "Point Shooting...An Introduction. By Joel Rosenberg
http://shootingsafely.com/pointshooting.htm
Interesting information from both for review by anyone carrying.

[Bib]

IMO, if you want to train for the real world, practice shooting using ALL stances...also strong hand/weak hand only...point shooting at close distances...shooting from behind cover...low light shooting. There is no "textbook format" for a self defense situation. Be ready for anything.

[Hawk]

I have not found many definitive reviews of actual "shootings" as to what
stances were used by non law enforcement officers. Most of the reviews
and statistics come from the reviews of officer involved shootings. While
checking on a police web site, I ran into an interesting article:
"Shooting on the move; using your instincts" www.policeone.com
Article by Michael T. Rayburn.
A second artile "Point Shooting...An Introduction. By Joel Rosenberg
http://shootingsafely.com/pointshooting.htm
Interesting information from both for review by anyone carrying.

I did read an article last week about a metro police office that did a study. As I recall, he said the officers in his dept were trained in various 2 handed combat stances and practiced them through out their careers. He further stated that he was in 2 shooting incidents and used one hand in both. Puzzled by this, he did some research and discovered under most real world shooting situations that an officer typically would utilize one hand. He concluded that it was instinctive for most officers under stress (regardless of training) to use one hand instead of two. I'll try to recall where I this article is and post.

Hawk,

[TonyF]

He concluded that it was instinctive for most officers under stress (regardless of training) to use one hand instead of two. I'll try to recall where I this article is and post.

Hawk,

He needs to both qualify and quantify this statement before his study has any meaning to me.

In the OIS he studied, of those officers who did have training, my questions are "what" training, "how much" training and "who" trained them.

[Lycanthrope]

Use what gives you the best accuracy with the best mobility. Don't be surprised if it changes with your skill advancements. Technique always evolves and rarely has a rigid standard. Proper grip and sight/target focus (which varies depending on the range and conditions of the target) will allow you shoot in almost any position and needs to be mastered first.

At any speed and position, you need to see what you need to see to make the shot. That sounds really vague, but you need to almost instinctually know where you can make the shot while point shooting, using a slide focus, front sight focus or total sight focus. See what you need to see while moving as fast as you can. Seeing dictates your speed for shooting.....otherwise.....you're just running away spraying and praying.

Never rely on feel. Be honest about your accuracy/hit, the timer and how quickly/smoothly you can move.

I used Weaver for years and things opened up for me in all positions using a modern isos in terms of speed. I'm still trying new things.

Lycanmy$.02ofternworthhalfthatthrope

[MarcS]

He needs to both qualify and quantify this statement before his study has any meaning to me.

In the OIS he studied, of those officers who did have training, my questions are "what" training, "how much" training and "who" trained them.

Definitely. They may have been trained to shoot with two hands, but how often did they practice it? Clearly not often enough.