Breaking my silence for a good reason: our world may just end in 2012 (UN Ban/Grab)

[tes151]

I doubt politicians would be so stupid as to try an all-out ban or gun grab. Personally I'd worry more about crushing taxes on ammunition or bullets or powder. Or maybe a yearly "fee" required per firearm. Or another capacity limit sort of law. The idea would be to make ownership legal but impractical.

The death of private firearms ownership won't come all at once. It will be done in 1000 slices, all in the name of "common sense".

That would only work if we comply. This isn't the UK. We aren't a bunch of pussies that wet our pants every time the government says something. It won't work here.

[OvadekP]

Were they to attempt this, I suspect a significant number of gun owners would not comply. Then if those in charge of enforcement were to attempt to enforce a ban by force I expect that a large portion of those who didn't comply would then respond violently.

Peaceful law abiding people should be left alone, if they are made to be criminals by a treaty of the govt. that would only liberate them to action. When you make a good guy a bad guy why would he follow any of the gun controll laws.

I also don't think the current crop of politicians in DC are stupid enough to attempt to grab the whole enchillada, they see what is happening with the tea party over taxes and govt. spending. Were they to push something thru as far as a UN/US gun ban you would see tea party like events with guns involved and that would go down hill real fast, I am just not sure for whom.

[Warpt762x39]

I don't understand why everyone thinks that a treaty signed by the president or secretary of state is unenforceable. Sure you're right in terms of what they're allowed according to the constitution, but since when does the government follow that? How much other unconstitutional crap with respect to firearms have they allowed? A lot has already been named in this thread. What about executive orders and regulations/requirements made by agencies that are in effect laws, but have never gone through congress? My point is that just because a treaty isn't valid doesn't mean the gov't won't try to enforce it.

Well enforcing most other invalid treaties won't lead to bloodshed. People would die and things could easily get to the point of open warfare in a lot of places. I doubt even the most Liberal/Progressive anti gun politician would want something like that on their hands.

Even hardcore supporters of politicians like that don't generally look too kindly on their elected officials being responsible for something like that.

I doubt politicians would be so stupid as to try an all-out ban or gun grab. Personally I'd worry more about crushing taxes on ammunition or bullets or powder. Or maybe a yearly "fee" required per firearm. Or another capacity limit sort of law. The idea would be to make ownership legal but impractical.

The death of private firearms ownership won't come all at once. It will be done in 1000 slices, all in the name of "common sense".

Couldn't that be construed as similar to a poll tax? Those aren't allowed so I can't see how enforcing a fee on gun ownership could last long. The SCotUS would end up taking that one on and I doubt it would hold up there.

Personally, I think if they tried to enforce a treat like this, tarring and feathering would come back into style in a major hurry.

[thanker92]

SCOTUS would turn this on it's head. This has been discussed 1000 times here. The treaty could never happen and it would be unenforcable. the vast majorit of congressmen would run the other way.

And what would happen if 2 or 3 more Justices leave and Hilary, Bill and more like them are made Justices? I become very afraid when I think about it.

[In the Doghouse]

Does this mean we can get our "large arms" back since small arms seem to be the problem?

[tsafa]

No they may not directly take your guns, but don't you think arms manufacturers sell out of this country?

Do you think this will hurt their business?

1-Modern Guns are completely useless without ammo... except as clubs.

2-As we have seen last year, ammo dries very, very fast even in high demand situations. Imagine if ammo was restricted.

3-To be any good with firearms, you must practice, practice, practice. You can not do that without ammo.

4-They can attack the supply of ammo a lot more easily. They will say it is an explosive and can not be put in any vehicle other an authorized government one.

Recomendation:
Everyone should own at least one Flintlock and learn to make their own black powder. Get ball-molds and cast your own balls for ammo. The Flintlock is the one firearm they can not shut down.

[crlovel]

1-Modern Guns are completely useless without ammo... except as clubs.

2-As we have seen last year, ammo dries very, very fast even in high demand situations. Imagine if ammo was restricted.

3-To be any good with firearms, you must practice, practice, practice. You can not do that without ammo.

4-They can attack the supply of ammo a lot more easily. They will say it is an explosive and can not be put in any vehicle other an authorized government one.

Recomendation:
Everyone should own at least one Flintlock and learn to make their own black powder. Get ball-molds and cast your own balls for ammo. The Flintlock is the one firearm they can not shut down.

1. Ammo stockpile? Reloading equipment?
2. Yeah, it dried up because of stockpiling, not so much an increase in shooting.
3. Sure you can. It's called rationing your ammo and practicing more with .22s, paintball, or Airsoft.
4. See #1.

Your recommendation for flintlocks and ball-molds is lunacy at best and suicide at worse. The right to keep and bear arms is meant as a check against a tyrannical gov't. How is this remotely practical or imaginable with a flintlock? If you want to go head to head against a modern gov't force with a Harpers Ferry musket, you be my guest. I think there are much more practical and effective resistance methods, and they don't even include firearms.

[nailer]

IMFAO, this will never happen. We are the United States of America; no matter who is President, or Sec. of State, or which party holds the majority. It's the Bill of Rights. Rights is plural. You take one --- you take them all.
We won't allow this to happen.

[GHogHarvester]

Rights? Constitution?

First, the Bill of Rights does not bestow upon you rights, those rights are "natural", and have always existed as product of creation. The Bill of Rights outlines them as facets of human behavior that the government has no right to interfere with, nor can any majority take from you.

Second, the Constitutions, federal and state, define the boundaries of government as a set of strict limitations.

Both are trampled and ignored under the cloven hoofs of those who pretend to represent us. They will continue to besiege our rights, to act "for our own good" and in the process usurp all the powers withheld from them to further tyranny.

No tyranny can claim victory against a defended citizenry; no populous, defenseless, can escape one.

[tsafa]

1. Ammo stockpile? Reloading equipment?
2. Yeah, it dried up because of stockpiling, not so much an increase in shooting.
3. Sure you can. It's called rationing your ammo and practicing more with .22s, paintball, or Airsoft.
4. See #1.

Your recommendation for flintlocks and ball-molds is lunacy at best and suicide at worse. The right to keep and bear arms is meant as a check against a tyrannical gov't. How is this remotely practical or imaginable with a flintlock? If you want to go head to head against a modern gov't force with a Harpers Ferry musket, you be my guest. I think there are much more practical and effective resistance methods, and they don't even include firearms.

1-Ammo stock piles... no matter how large will run out over the course of a lifetime... or two.

2-Reloading will only get you so far if the government bans the sale and shipment of propellant. You will have to make your own. Most likely that will be blackpowder which I mentioned earlier. Using black powder will extend the life of you casings from 4-10 reloads to over a 1,000. You still have a problem of where to get primers. You can stock up but you will run out in a life time or two. Think of those who must carry on the fight after we are gone.

3-Rationing, will only go so far. Using substitutes for shooting practice is not the real thing. There are issues of sound, recoil, reloading... etc that must all be practiced.

Look I'm not saying get rid of all your guns in favor of a flintlock. If you have 20 centerfire firearms I am suggesting that number 21 be a flintlock. Its a lot of fun to shoot too.

One man with a flintlock or even an AR-15 is hopeless against govt planes and tanks... a few million people armed with Flintlocks are a force to be reckoned with. Especially if they control the food and water supply. The armies of Tyrants can not eat their bullets... they have to come out to the country side for food. That is where they are vulnerable. You can not fight the armies of Tyrants head on. You have to fight them sniper style. One Shot, Once Kill. Then you disappear. A Rifled Flintlock will do the job.