Practical difference in powder loads?

[gnbrotz]

I've chosen to use Remington Golden Saber HPJs as my defensive load. My caliber (.40 S&W) is available in either 165 grains or 180 grains. Does any significant difference exist in performance? How would I notice?

[Lucas]

The 165 and 180 grain ratings are bullet weights, not powder loads. The 165grain bullet would likely have a higher velocity than a 180 grain bullet of similar design over the same powder charge. The heavier bullet will likely move slower, but carry more momentum. I've heard it likened to comparing a car to a truck in a collision. I personally don't think the difference is all that drastic, but does exist.

[gnbrotz]

Thanks for the reply (and for kindly correcting my ignorance). Is the powder charge for a given round listed on the package? Are manufacturers know to bump up the charge a bit for a heavier bullet, or is the bullet weight likely to be the only difference between the two?

[Lucas]

I don't think most manufacturers list the powder charge used on the packaging, atleast not that I've noticed. I'm not sure if most manufacturers have different powders and charge weights for different weight bullets or not. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will chime in.

[mauser]

I don't know of any commercial ammo makers that list the powder type or powder weight on the ammo box. They do list the bullet weight and sometimes the approximate velocity. The velocity will vary due to several factors, the most influential typically being the gun barrel, (Length, actual bore diameter and condition of the bore can cause a lot of variation from one gun to another using the same ammo).

The powder charge is typically lighter for a heavier bullet.
The more weight you're pushing, the higher the chamber pressure. If you are near the maximum safe pressure with a 165 grain bullet and use the same amount of powder to push a 180 grain bullet, the higher chamber pressure could very well be over the maximum safe pressure and cause catastrophic failure.

Look at this load data chart then look at my attempt at an explanation below it:



If you can decipher what the numbers mean, you'll see that as the bullet weight increases, the powder charge (Grs.) decreases. You'll also notice that as the bullet weight increases, the velocity {Vel. (ft/s)} decreases and the pressure increases.
It's all about keeping the chamber pressure to a safe level.

Simply stated, a heavier bullet can cause more harm at a lower velocity. Think about this;
I couldn't swing a sledge hammer as fast as I could swing a claw hammer, but a sledge hammer swung with all my might would surely do more damage than a claw hammer swung with all my might. Like Lucas said, the difference is in the momentum (or inertia, or kinetic energy, however you want to phrase it, heavier can carry more energy).
I hope this helps.

[daschnoz]

I found this data at www.midwayusa.com (since Remington doesn't have it on their web site for some unknown reason)
Remington Golden Saber - 40 S&W
165gr - 1150fps - 485 ft/lbs
180gr - 1015fps - 412 ft/lbs

What's 73lbs among friends? Your butt still looks big in those jeans

I have read that hollow point bullets do their job the best (expansion) at velocities over 1100fps.

If the velocities are equal, go with the heavier bullet. That however isn't the case. The energy is a function of the bullet weight and the SQUARE of the velocity, so in this case, with the 165gr bullet, that extra 135fps more than makes up for the -15gr of weight.

Personally, I would go with the 165gr bullets.

[bloomautomatic]

The bullet energy equation favors faster bullets over heavier bullets. I'm a fan of heavier bullets as they have more momentum.

180gr is about 10% heavier than 165gr, so it's not a huge difference, but it is a difference. Either way, you have plenty of power to do the job. If the bad guy got shot with a 165gr, then with a 180gr, he's not gonna notice the difference! Shot placement is what's going to do the difference.

I would test a box of each and see if there's a difference in reliability. Go with the more reliable of the two. Also, you may feel more recoil with the 180 compared with the 165. That may have an effect on getting a quick second shot off.

Vince

[crazyyankee]

One of the reasons manufacturers don't list the powder type or powder charge is because they use different powders or a mix of powders to obtain the velocity they want.

For example if you buy a box of Federal 30-30's with a 180 grain SP with a lot number of 12345 and it has a velocity of 1500 fps at the muzzle. They may have used 28 grains of brand A powder to achieve that.

Now a month later you buy another box of the same thing with a lot number of 67891 it will still have a velocity of 1500 fps at the muzzle and use the same bullet, but may have used a mix between brand B and brand C powder to achieve the same consistency and velocity of the first box.

This is why they do it in lots. The main details such as bullet weight and case and primer may be the same, but the powder weight and type may be different to achieve the same results..

Hope that helps...

Mike

[VeryPrivate]

The bullet energy equation favors faster bullets over heavier bullets. I'm a fan of heavier bullets as they have more momentum.

Actually, the momentum go either way depending on the load. A 165 gr at 1150fps gives a Power Factor of 190. A 180 gr at 1050fps is a PF of 189. The momentum theory would suggest the the two bullets would have similar terminal performance. This is not a big surprise since the two bullets only differ by 15 grains.

[mauser]

When you consider the difference between 22LR and 44 Magnum or 45ACP, and compare that to the difference of 165 gr. or 180 gr. fired from a .40S&W, the 15 gr. of bullet weight is pretty insignificant. Stay ready with whatever is handy and hope you never have to use it.