Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default My Cw9 Experiences...Thus Far

    A Tale From A Kahr Owner: WARNING LONG POST

    The Back Story:

    I purchased a Kahr CW9 back in Feb. to fill the gap in my carry rotation. Basically I wanted a gun that was of reasonable power, but lighter and easier to conceal than my G27.
    Voila enter the Kahr CW9. I was a bit wary of the Kahr polymers, but the P9 and CW9 seem to have a decent reputation, and since this was a gun I didnít plan on carrying too often, and it was $400 I took a chance.

    By mid July I had close to 1000 failure free rounds down the pipe. After some back and forth I decided 124g Golden Sabers would be the carry round for this gun. Ok 125 expensive rounds later no issues. So at this point most of my Kahr worries have been abated, and Iím quite happy. The only minor concern I had from the day of purchase
    was the side panel looked a bit bulged/deformed and loose. Not major just a bit sloppy looking.


    Something Amiss?

    Itís the end of July and Iím going to Ohio for the weekend to do some shooting and drinking(not together) with some new friends. I had a couple hundred 9mmís screaming to be shot. So before packing up I decide to drop them through the CW9. When I was down to the last 25 rounds or so I had two instances of the trigger failing to reset. OK I was rapid firing, and the Kahr shoots like a revolver, so I told myself I short stroked the trigger(even though I only did this a couple times when I first shot the gun). Packed up a boat load of guns and ammo and off to Ohio. Alright a couple days later we get around to shooting. Itís a very hot day. All guns are laid out in the sun for maybe an hour. I hand my Kahr to a friend to try. The trigger wonít reset. Canít even squeeze off one round. So Iím thinking for some reason I have a broken trigger bar. Canít imagine how since it just fired fine two days previous(remember I convinced myself I short stroked the trigger). One would think that one round would go down the pipe before such a failure since the last previous round fired through the gun was fine.
    Well I canít get the slide off to investigate because the trigger wonít reset, so back in the box. Itís hot as hell and there is plenty of shooting irons to try.

    The Fall From Grace:

    Iím back home a couple days before I find time to clean and investigate the Kahr. I pull out the piece and low and behold the trigger is reset. Dry fire it several times. No problem. Hmm. The heat? Everything appears normal. Ok back outside with a 50 rounds to see WTF. I had three or four reset failures in 50 rounds. Now Iím convinced I did not short stroke the trigger earlier. Time to call Kahr.
    Service is helpful they issue me a RA# and even pay for the shipping to them after I complain a bit that I live in a very rural area and would need to drive an hour to drop off the gun at a Fed Ex hub. So Iím annoyed, but shit happens. Iím not terribly worried. It appears to be a minor mechanical issue AFAIC. Well since itís going back I figure time to investigate the loose side panel. After messing around I manage to get the trigger to fail while dry firing and rapidly racking the slide. Just prying slightly on the side panel I can cause the failure. Odd since the trigger bar and spring appears normal and needs to draw away from the cocking cam about .030 or more before the trigger bar skips off the cam. Maybe the trigger bar spring is distorting slightly because the panel if not a perfect fit. I say not perfect because itís not bad just a bit ďshakeyĒ. I relay all of this to Kahr and include it in a note with the gun. I also made it very clear that Iím not a gun newb and Iím not short stroking the trigger. Off to Kahr and the wait begins.

    Fixed Already?

    Five days after Fed EX picks up my gun itís back! That includes the weekend! Now Iím a bit skeptical. Tech support was unfamiliar with my issue and I knew it was going to take some shooting to replicate the problem and properly diagnose, but who knows. Canít bitch about their turn around. I requested all replaced parts to be returned for my review. Well all they replaced was the trigger bar spring. No way in hell itís the spring. The spring may be failing, but not due to the spring itself. Iím too busy to shoot so it lays around for a week or two. Iím in no hurry to shoot it because I know itís going to fail.
    A few days before Labor day and 150 rounds in handÖ.I give up after 80. About 30 rounds into the shoot the trigger failed. By about 50-60 rounds I lost count. I begin messing around with side panel, and decide perhaps the pin that stakes the panel is drifting out. I removed it replaced it. Failure, failure, failure bang. So now Iím methodically watching the panel while I shoot at 5 yds. Squeeze, no bang, light pressure on the side panel click goes the trigger bar, bang. Did that 10 or 12 times. The lightest pressure on the panel gun goes bang. Ok I have an epiphany. Iím a southpaw. The panel is on the right. So I grab the gun righty and my palm easily covers the panel enough to add pressure. So I begin shooting right handed bang ,bang, bang, Four mags later no failures. So Iím really pissed because Kahr failed to fix my gun, or even try in my opinion. But since most of the planet is right handed it is conceivable that the gun smith overlooked the problem. Still I virtually gave them a blueprint of the problem, but instead, who ever worked on the gun, shot it, it went bang, replaced a .10 spring to shut me up, and shipped back to the perceived newbie.

    Back To Kahr:

    After my latest revelation I relay all off findings and my disappointment with Kahr. I make it quite clear that this gun will not be shipped a third time for this issue, and that I expect this gun to be fixed. I donít care if you need to replace every freaking part in it to be sure, or issue me a new gun. Fix the gun! You designed it. You manufactured it. Iíve given you a roadmap how to fix it. Oh and BTW regardless of the root cause I expect that side panel to be replaced. So Iím assured that the individual I spoke to would personally shoot the gun when it came in, left and right handed. New RA# issued, but itís the Thursday before Labor day weekend, and Iím not going to be home, so itís put off to the following Wednesday. Off to KahrÖagain
    Back To Kahr?

    Wednesday afternoon Fed Ex rolls up as expected. The usual driver( the first time it was a fill in driver). We get our paperwork together and he asks who is paying, I told him. He pauses. He says what is it. I said a gun. Long pause. I canít ship a gun from a private individual. Itís going to the manufacturer I said. He is adamant that Fed Ex will not ship a gun. He calls his boss. Nope canít ship a gun. So Iíve quoted the law and regs three times by now, and he finally says well it may be legal, but Fed Ex policy after 9/11 blaa, blaa, blaa. You picked it up three or four weeks ago. Well it wasnít me, and Iím not going to lose my job. So Of course Iím informing him heís dead wrong and he might as well call his boss and tell him youíre going to hang out until this is resolved because if you leave you will be back tomorrow I guarantee it. At which time he informally bets my house that Iím wrong. Iíll take that bet. I call Kahr they explain the same stuff. No No my boss says I canít. Finally he calls his boss again , and they patch him to someone with a brain in Buffalo. Yeah but, how can I, and how can he, yeah but, uha, uha, I see, Ok. So it appears that it must be shipped next day priority to the manufacturer only, adult signature required. Isnít that what I told you. Oh and BTW when you come back with my gun bring some pictures of your house. I would like to see what kind of shack I just won. We have a chuckle and off to KahrÖ.again.

    Is he an anti? Or just misinformed. He is from NY. Perhaps just over cautious. He has worked for FED Ex over 10 years.

    Fixed Already? Part Deux


    The following Tuesday I actually receive a call from Kahr informing me my gun is being shipped. It arrives Wednesday (no house pictures). For those counting, thatís 6 days including a 3 day holiday weekend. Once again canít bitch about turn around. I canít imagine they pulled the same BS this time. Open the box.. This time I have a new trigger bar, side panel, striker, and the aforementioned trigger bar spring.
    I would feel better if the cocking cam and spring were also replaced. The side panel is very firm and well seated to the frame.

    The Moment of Truth:

    Two days ago I finally get some time to test the latest repair job. Put 200 rounds down range. No problem. I tried like hell to make it fail. I was knocking of rounds as fast as I could pull the trigger. I was quite confident that this time it would be OK. The question is how long?






    Conclusion:

    I have no gripe with customer service. I know some have had poor response time, but I believe they were mostly e-mail contacts. Iím old enough to know life before e-mail. E-mail is worse than voice mail. Just another bottomless pit of customer complaints. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Use the phone!


    Itís possible that my situation was a unique combination of several parts slightly out of tolerance that snowballed. I personally feel the rather flimsy side panel, which Kahr claims is for gas release in the event of a catastrophic failure, is prone to bulging from the trigger bar spring, and since I am a southpaw, there is zero support on that portion of the frame. If anyone owns a Kahr with this type of panel I would keep an eye on it, and shoot a hundred rounds or more left handed. A gun shouldnít function properly due to a fluke that most people are right handed Hey maybe it has nothing at all to do with it. Peculiar though. At this point my confidence with this gun is largely back on track, but will not be 100% until I get another 1,000 rounds through it. That likely will take quite some time. I have spoken with tech support to try and obtain some feed back as to what precisely was the problem. The fact that the striker was replaced, which was a non issue for me, made me wonder if they just added parts until it worked. It turns out that the striker was redesigned slightly to alleviate light primer strikes some were experiencing. So Kudosí to Kahr for replacing it while it was there. In addition they claim they have noticed instances where the trigger bar is walking off the cam due to a light trigger bar spring. In my case the spring alone did not solve the problem. The trigger bar was just replaced for the heck of it. This still makes me feel that the side panel and spring were the cumulative cause.

    All in all not a horror story, or a Kahror story as theyíve become known. I hope other Kahr owners can use this information. For now Iím keeping my CW9. Hopefully it will perform well in the future. It still has never failed in any other capacity. Not one FTE or FTF.

    Posted below 3 pics.

    View of side panel
    Left handed
    Right handed





  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default Re: My Cw9 Experiences...Thus Far

    The side panel should have no pressure on it at all. A left handed shooter puts less pressure on this panel than a righty does...this would be a good thing.

    I can make any Kahr Polymer series pistol trigger fail to reset by putting excessive pressure on the side panel with the trigger held back. Push in hard on the panel right in front of the pin with the trigger back. Now let go of the trigger and it will stay to the rear not re-setting.

    A mishaped or warped side panel that touches the trigger bar will cause problems.

    My guess is that your panel was bad from the factory yet passed through inspection because of the quick functions check that each pistol gets. The heat on that bad panel warped it enough to bind it up. Cooling that panel made it "close enough" again to fire.

    Kahrs are good guns with good customer service. Kahr will fix any gun they sell or buy it back. Kahr's like other guns should be inspected upon cleaning to check for problems...now you know to keep an eye on this side panel.

    Hopefully your Kahr will now run trouble free for years to come. I know I really like my mine.
    Last edited by BUCKMARK; September 17th, 2007 at 04:17 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: My Cw9 Experiences...Thus Far

    Quote Originally Posted by BUCKMARK View Post
    The side panel should have no pressure on it at all. A left handed shooter puts less pressure on this panel than a righty does...this would be a good thing.
    I hope this is true.

    My guess is that your panel was bad from the factory yet passed through inspection because of the quick functions check that each pistol gets. The heat on that bad panel warped it enough to bind it up. Cooling that panel made it "close enough" again to fire.
    I agree. My feelings exactly. But the panel wasn't grossly malformed. I find it a bit silly that the function of the trigger is so dependant on this panel. A piece of plastic that measures .075 thick. As far as excessive pressure. Sure. In my case the lightest pressure just below the panel pin would allow the trigger to reset.
    To be clear the trigger would not function. A light touch(not constant pressure) to the rear of the panel, and an audible click would follow. Trigger would set, bang.
    Repeat procedure. The heat the gun was exposed to sure would not have exceeded that of leaving it in a vehicle for a prolonged amount of time, which shouldn't render it useless. The panel does keep the trigger bar from walking off the cocking cam, so there is some repetitive force on the panel.


    Kahrs are good guns with good customer service. Kahr will fix any gun they sell or buy it back. Kahr's like other guns should be inspected upon cleaning to check for problems...now you know to keep an eye on this side panel.
    I do like my CW9 and I'm not Kahr bashing. That certainly is not the intention of this thread. Which is why I chose not to post it on GT. Obviously I inspect my guns after each cleaning. The side panel always appeared to be in the same state as it was when it was purchased. Which as I noted did catch my attention at the time of sale.

    Hey Buckmark thanks for taking some time to express your feelings.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: My Cw9 Experiences...Thus Far

    I hate to say it, but Kahr has left a real bad taste in my mouth, as well as my dad. My dad bought a PM9 which was absolute junk from the very beginning. We e-mailed Kahr and got a response, but they acted very skeptical that we were experiencing any problems, despite the attached pictures and such.They did ask if my dad wanted an RMA number to send it back for servicing, which he definitely said he did, but that was over a week and a half ago. Haven't heard anything back from them since. I wish I knew what this good Kahr customer service is that everyone keeps talking about.

    At this point my dad is hoping they'll just buy the gun back, so he can put the money towards a PPS, which in all likelyhood will be a little cheaper but 1000 times better quality.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: My Cw9 Experiences...Thus Far

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheeseybacon View Post
    I hate to say it, but Kahr has left a real bad taste in my mouth, as well as my dad. My dad bought a PM9 which was absolute junk from the very beginning. We e-mailed Kahr and got a response, but they acted very skeptical that we were experiencing any problems, despite the attached pictures and such.They did ask if my dad wanted an RMA number to send it back for servicing, which he definitely said he did, but that was over a week and a half ago. Haven't heard anything back from them since. I wish I knew what this good Kahr customer service is that everyone keeps talking about.

    At this point my dad is hoping they'll just buy the gun back, so he can put the money towards a PPS, which in all likelyhood will be a little cheaper but 1000 times better quality.
    I remember your thread regarding this issue. It was a trigger reset issue as well, was it not? I was really tempted to jump in on that thread, but I wanted to see how this whole thing worked out first. With the exception to the first return my experience has been polar opposite. You really should call if you have not. You may need to wait a while on hold, but I'm sure you will be issued a Ra immediately, they may even pay to ship it to them. Random trigger reset issues described my issue exactly.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: My Cw9 Experiences...Thus Far

    Digging this back up... since this is exactly what is wrong with my CW45. Well, truth be told I didn't get to the point where it didn't fire, because I noticed it not working during initial inspection. This post just confirms things. It needs to go back to Kahr.

    GC thanks for documenting so well.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: My Cw9 Experiences...Thus Far

    Digging this thread back up...again...

    I'm planning on purchasing a new handgun sometime in the new future. It's going to be a 9mm or .45 and I've been considering the Kahr CW series but I've also been reading a lot of negative things about them. I just got rid of a Taurus 24/7 that was basically junk IMO and I don't want to have a similiar experience with my next purchase.

    Any opinions on whether to buy or not to buy? How common are these issues?
    "Improvise. Adapt. Overcome."

  8. #8
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    Default Re: My Cw9 Experiences...Thus Far

    The CW is not junk. It just needed fixed. Once fixed it has been flawless. I'd buy another one no question. If the P380 wasn't $9,000,000 I'd get one of those.
    It has to start someplace... It has to start sometime...
    What better place than here? What better time than now! - RAtM

  9. #9
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    Default Re: My Cw9 Experiences...Thus Far

    My CW9 has been flawless, and I haven't pampered it. On it's last two range trips I ran 500 rounds through it each time, without a single problem. I'm pretty happy with that.
    Selling off a a sizeable Spyderco collection here

  10. #10
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    Default Re: My Cw9 Experiences...Thus Far

    I have a CW9, it was my daily carry piece, (and my first handgun) I shot it very often, after a few thousand rounds (maybe 4000 or more) the trigger bar broke. I sent it back to Kahr who fixed it for free, I paid for shipping to them.

    I found the gun to be very accurate, hitting 6 inch steel plates at 25 yards with ease. Also very concealable.

    I still own and shoot the gun from time to time but my daily carry is now an SP101 .357 magnum revolver.
    .

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