12 vs 410 debate

[DougX]

Why is there a 9mm vs 45acp, 223 vs 308 but not a 12ga vs 410 debate.The same excuses like less recoil,being able to carry more rounds and even though it's less powerful,it still can get the job done argument.Just an observation.While I think the 410 is good for small game and I've been trying to talk myself into a Judge,the 12gauge does everything else better.

[Pector55]

Why is there a 9mm vs 45acp, 223 vs 308 but not a 12ga vs 410 debate.The same excuses like less recoil,being able to carry more rounds and even though it's less powerful,it still can get the job done argument.Just an observation.While I think the 410 is good for small game and I've been trying to talk myself into a Judge,the 12gauge does everything else better.

I was also interested in the Judge but I found there has been much debate over the usefulness of the .410 in a self-defense situation.
1. Taurus used a video where a guy shoots a target from his car. Many pointed out that using a light shot on paper at a close distance will appear devastating whereas that same shot into someone's chest at close range will really piss someone off.

2. If you go to a .410 slug, you may as well use the .45LC and now your are at a single round projectile so why not jump back into the 9mm vs .45 ACP debate.

3. If you drop to a low count, larger sized .410 shot, there still isn't enough velocity or size to have the required stopping power for a self-defense gun.

I talked myself out of the Judge. It would probably be enough to scare the crap out of a carjacker or a mugger but I wouldn't want it in a situation where there was a meth-head or someone hopped up on crack, attempting to kill me.

There ya go.. debate started.

[TJB63]

pector,

Good Observations, I bought a mossberg 20GA for my wife to use when she's home alone knowing she would'nt like the recoil of a 12GA. Imagine my shock when I found the 20GA to 'kick' almost as much as a 12GA - So now I'm back to square one.

I thought of going the 410 route but just for every reason you stated, I can't get behind it. My next option is to load some reduced 20GA loads and go from there.

I thought I wanted a Judge at one time also..But Why? ~ I couldn't come up with a justifiable reason..So NO Judge.

TJB

[SauerGrapes]

Leave the 410 where it belongs, on the skeet field. I've seen too many wounded birds get away. Close range, hunting over dogs it is fine if you know how to shoot.

28 and 20ga are IMO better for upland birds. 12ga.? HD, 12ga. or 9mm or bigger. I like a handgun in the house. The Judge isn't on my list!

[Asmodeus6]

While I wouldn't want shot with anything. I have a hard time looking at the judge or .410 from a pistol barrel seriously for self defense. For the size and weight of the judge there are about 50 things I would rather carry.

Not a big fan of .410 either since I don't hunt small game. It's expensive and less common than 12 gauge and I wouldn't consider that for home defense either. I already have a 12 gauge.

[Flash]

It all boils down to essentially this. You are hurling a mess of #6 shot out at something like 1250 fps. with EITHER 410 or 12. If one pellet in the brain will kill the squirrel or bird, - - well done. If not, then there is plan "B".

So (Plan "B") since you can't be sure that that single, magic, silver pellet will actually strike the brain. . . . you toss out more shot - a LOT more shot. With a 12 ga., 1-1/4 oz, twice as much as a 410. And you increase the likelihood of getting the silver bulet in a vital spot. Well, even if you dont, you have increased the likelihood of getting ENOUGH lead into the target to at least incapacitate it, so that you can send Woofie out to retrieve it.

If you are good and confident, use the 410. If you take more chancy shots, the 12 is your friend.

Flash

[jokusfocus]

I don't think there's a debate in the shotgun world because a 12GA can do (most) of what a 410 can do and more. There's no increase in capacity since (most) shotguns use tube magazines. 12GA costs WAY less (commercial loads) than 410. And 12GA can be down-loaded to the point it has nearly zero recoil, either by reloading or by getting some of the low recoil-low noise shells (which are great for introducing people to shotguns).

Only advantage for a 410 is lighter barrels.

...

As for the Judge, I doubt the barrel is long enough to generate much energy with a 410 with the slow-burning powder in shotgun shells. In this article, the author does a lot of tests on the 410 in the judge. Looks like the 410's only generate about half of the energy they are designed to out of a shotgun, and that leaves very little energy per pellet, even with buckshot (~100 ft/lbs/pellet).

(personally) The Judge wouldn't be top of my list or defense against man-sized opponents, but for up-close encounters with smaller targets, I bet it is hard to beat.

And it IS fun to shoot...

[DougX]

I guess what I was getting at is there is no debate when it comes to shotguns,but more versatile rifle and handguns calibers,there is a debate.(I still want a Judge even know there is no reason for it)Take for example(I'm biased)the 10mm.You can shoot everthing from light 135gr to heavy 230gr,but people will say the 9mm is better for this and that reason,but I can't find anyone to say the 410 is better then the 12ga,because the 12ga is more veratile.Not trying to start a big debate,but just an thuoght.

[thefirstndsecond]

There is no comparison.

[Pector55]

I have found that I love the .410 for squirrel hunting. When I would hunt with my step-father, he would joke that the squirrels had no marks on them and were not shot up... they simply died when they hit the ground after falling out of the tree laughing at my .410. haha