ACR and SCAR

[Jabtime]

I've been hearing alot about how these "ar-15/ak47 killing" guns are gonna completely takeover the market?


Can anyone tell me some information about this?

[nfafan]

IMHO,

Maybe, possibly in a tax-payer financed military they will eventually replace the "Big Two", but not in the immediate future. And not because the "Big Two" fail to continue to win wars, but rather because change happens.

As for the rest of us, we will buy them as/when we can afford them.

In a domestic SHTF situation, I'll put my trust in the AR/AK (in 7.62) as we know them TODAY, given that ammo/parts for either platform can be found pretty much everywhere now these days from Academy Sports to WalMarts.

[forceinPA]

not for the 2000+ price tag they bring

[PhilaShooter]

They are really nice rifles no doubt about that but I have to agree with nfafan, in a SHTF situation my arsenal of FAL/AR/AK will be my choice over newer/less proven rifles. Not that the ACR/SCAR aren't great rifles I'm sure they are, I've been keeping track of them a bit also, what there capable of ect... but just considering parts alone the FAL/AR/AK have flooded markets for each, with anything you can think of to put on them. Now if the ACR becomes available with being able to have a 5.56 AND 7.62x39 barrel AND swap the barrels out in a matter of SECONDS that would be one of my top choices...assuming i could afford the rifle, both barrels and plenty of spare parts that is.

[Mauler88]

I just got my FN SCAR 16-L this weekend. I had it shiped to John's shop "Seneca Arms" at green lane. I picked it up saturday and went straight to the range. I will post my review of the rifle soon with range report.

[JoshT]

I just got my FN SCAR 16-L this weekend. I had it shiped to John's shop "Seneca Arms" at green lane. I picked it up saturday and went straight to the range. I will post my review of the rifle soon with range report.

So what is the verdict?

[cms81586]

After seeing the SCAR actually put to use in Afghanistan and talking with the guys using them, they seem very happy. The ACR is unproven. While the SCAR does not have 40+ years under it's belt like the AR I'd be more inclined to purchase a SCAR. I don't think the military will replace the M16/M4 any time soon but the SCAR is a good start. When purchasing either on the civilian side, I'd take the SCAR just because you get what you get. There is no "basic" package with a left over M4 barrel and non-folding stock. Bushmaster is taking shortcuts that seem to be annoying people.


CMS

[billt]

One of the things to keep in mind about the price of this weapon is production cost per unit. The gun has a molded Polymer lower. The cost to produce a mold to generate the lower is very costly. Especially so if it is a multi cavity design. Also, there are numerous jigs and fixtures that had to be machined prior to actual production. These are costly to produce as well.

I believe one of the main reasons this weapon was kicked around by Mag-Pul for so many years was they couldn't find a company to produce it cheap enough to sell it at a profit. Most every shooter out there bases every new EBR price on the AR-15, a rifle that has been in production for almost 50 years. There are so many different vendors supplying AR-15 parts in this country, the average gun enthusiasts with a little mechanical aptitude can buy the parts and assemble one on his kitchen table cheaper than he can purchase one new from a gun store.

Tooling costs for a completely new design rifle can be off the chart expensive. And it takes a lot of time, as well as sales to recoup all of these costs and start to turn a profit. Bushmaster took on production of this rifle based on many things. Production costs, market acceptability, (demographics from most every region showed a lot of shooters were chomping at the bit for the opportunity to buy one of these rifles.) It had a lot of pre production anticipation. And most important, what they could sell it for.

Other weapons in this price range are selling well. LWRC and LMT sell their piston weapons for close to the same price, and they are selling them literally as fast as they can make them. Much the same with Springfield Armory with their SOCOM 16, and SOCOM II. Both are allocated, and many smaller gun shops can't stock them without agreeing to take on additional inventory from Springfield that is harder to move.

If Bushmaster will or won't have a problem moving this gun will be based on timing. The economy stinks on ice right now, with zero sign of improvement in the near future. Especially if Hussein continues down his current economic road to ruin. It's an expensive gamble to take. It is one of the reasons you don't see too many guns like this come out. It's easier to introduce old designs in different clothes. Much like Savage has done with a lot of their short and long action bolt weapons. Their new BA and BA-T "Sniper" styled weapons sell for about the same as the Bushmaster ACR, and are nothing but a Savage 110 with a gussied up stock design. Much cheaper to produce than an entirely new weapon system built from the ground up on new tooling.

I wouldn't expect to see much of a price reduction on these guns in the immediate future. A lot of guns are in this price range, and many, as I said, are dressed up old designs. This gun will be one to watch. If it succeeds, and I hope it does, it will give a lot of hope to other manufacturers not to be afraid of experimenting with new designs. If it tanks, expect more of the same old stuff in different wrappings. Bill T.

[levib]

One of the things to keep in mind about the price of this weapon is production cost per unit. The gun has a molded Polymer lower. The cost to produce a mold to generate the lower is very costly. Especially so if it is a multi cavity design. Also, there are numerous jigs and fixtures that had to be machined prior to actual production. These are costly to produce as well.

I believe one of the main reasons this weapon was kicked around by Mag-Pul for so many years was they couldn't find a company to produce it cheap enough to sell it at a profit. Most every shooter out there bases every new EBR price on the AR-15, a rifle that has been in production for almost 50 years. There are so many different vendors supplying AR-15 parts in this country, the average gun enthusiasts with a little mechanical aptitude can buy the parts and assemble one on his kitchen table cheaper than he can purchase one new from a gun store.

Tooling costs for a completely new design rifle can be off the chart expensive. And it takes a lot of time, as well as sales to recoup all of these costs and start to turn a profit. Bushmaster took on production of this rifle based on many things. Production costs, market acceptability, (demographics from most every region showed a lot of shooters were chomping at the bit for the opportunity to buy one of these rifles.) It had a lot of pre production anticipation. And most important, what they could sell it for.

Other weapons in this price range are selling well. LWRC and LMT sell their piston weapons for close to the same price, and they are selling them literally as fast as they can make them. Much the same with Springfield Armory with their SOCOM 16, and SOCOM II. Both are allocated, and many smaller gun shops can't stock them without agreeing to take on additional inventory from Springfield that is harder to move.

If Bushmaster will or won't have a problem moving this gun will be based on timing. The economy stinks on ice right now, with zero sign of improvement in the near future. Especially if Hussein continues down his current economic road to ruin. It's an expensive gamble to take. It is one of the reasons you don't see too many guns like this come out. It's easier to introduce old designs in different clothes. Much like Savage has done with a lot of their short and long action bolt weapons. Their new BA and BA-T "Sniper" styled weapons sell for about the same as the Bushmaster ACR, and are nothing but a Savage 110 with a gussied up stock design. Much cheaper to produce than an entirely new weapon system built from the ground up on new tooling.

I wouldn't expect to see much of a price reduction on these guns in the immediate future. A lot of guns are in this price range, and many, as I said, are dressed up old designs. This gun will be one to watch. If it succeeds, and I hope it does, it will give a lot of hope to other manufacturers not to be afraid of experimenting with new designs. If it tanks, expect more of the same old stuff in different wrappings. Bill T.

But, but, but... companies shouldn't make money!

I'll be all over either one of these if the prices come down. As it stands, I'll deal with an AR-15 if I can get 2 for the price of a SCAR or ACR.

[Stooperzero]

take over??


Nope , no chance in hell



If I had the extra $$ laying around Yea I'd spring for a Scar and SBR it .