Legal Expense Insurance for Firearms Carriers?

[Belasarius]

It occurred to me that there are some PAFAO members that have incurred some painful legal expenses defending their right to lawfully possess and carry firearms. My employer provides me as part of my benefits a generic legal expenses insurance policy and I'm aware that various auto-clubs and car insurance companies provide legal expense riders to provide representation and support if you are ticketed and have to go to court.

I did some checking and there are self-defense policies out there to cover legal expenses related to your use of a firearm (or anything) in self-defense. The NRA has various insurances. I copied this from an NRA insurance brochure and I think it is provided as a basic membership service (2009):

All Risks equipment cover for your shooting equipment and Legal expenses, paid in the event that you are threatened with the suspension, variation of or refusal to renew your Firearm or Shotgun Certificate

I am wondering if PAFAO alone, or in concert with other organizations with the same goals could arrange for a policy available to paid members that would provide something like $5-10k (cheap) for legal representation in the case of somebody charged with an offense related to the carry or use of a firearm.

I didn't find anything like this here. I'm just wondering.

[shooter357]

I have to tell you, it is my opinion that the insurance industry is part of what is wrong with this country. I want more insurance like I want more government, LESS.

[Belasarius]

I have to tell you, it is my opinion that the insurance industry is part of what is wrong with this country. I want more insurance like I want more government, LESS.

What if they didn't wear ties, have teeth like a sharks, and a cold dead handshake?

[kutblok]

http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/ph.../insurance.htm

I think insurance is a good idea. Being forced to buy it by government is tyranny. The only function that government should play is in forcing someone whose actions have damaged another to pay up or go to jail.

[Belasarius]

http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/ph.../insurance.htm

I think insurance is a good idea. Being forced to buy it by government is tyranny. The only function that government should play is in forcing someone whose actions have damaged another to pay up or go to jail.

I don't want free insurance. I want very cheap insurance to pay for a few hours of lawyer time in case I need to get my LTCF back for any particular reason. As I said, I found self-defense insurance online in case a person may have to go to court to prove a case of self-defense for any reason.

What I'm proposing is jack-ass insurance in a case where I/anybody might be charged for a violation of a firearms law by an improperly instructed or overly belligerent official.

In theory, you should be able to buy insurance to cover any kind of loss. I would think it would cost something like $20 a year for 5k in coverage but I'm just guessing. I have a friend who started his own insurance company insuring banks against losses on their new car loans about 30 years ago. He sold it and retired a millionaire.

[sprat]

http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/

[Belasarius]

http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/

I emailed them for details. I'm primarily interested in what happens for a charge of disorderly conduct or some other harassing type charge such as license revocation levied against a person for legally carrying a firearm.

[gnbrotz]

It occurred to me that there are some PAFAO members that have incurred some painful legal expenses defending their right to lawfully possess and carry firearms. My employer provides me as part of my benefits a generic legal expenses insurance policy and I'm aware that various auto-clubs and car insurance companies provide legal expense riders to provide representation and support if you are ticketed and have to go to court.

I did some checking and there are self-defense policies out there to cover legal expenses related to your use of a firearm (or anything) in self-defense. The NRA has various insurances. I copied this from an NRA insurance brochure and I think it is provided as a basic membership service (2009):



I am wondering if PAFAO alone, or in concert with other organizations with the same goals could arrange for a policy available to paid members that would provide something like $5-10k (cheap) for legal representation in the case of somebody charged with an offense related to the carry or use of a firearm.

I didn't find anything like this here. I'm just wondering.

Based on every indication that I've seen and heard, the likelihood that something like this would ever be available from PAFOA itself to be very low. This is why the organization itself also does not involve itself in the fundraisers that have been conducted to date, and has not donated and organization money to the private efforts that have been undertaken, though I'm not completely clear on if PAFOA's non-profit classification would permit such contributions anyway.

It seems like this could be a very risky undertaking (financially speaking). Is it legal to deny coverage/charge higher rates to someone based on a prior criminal record - which could make them a higher risk? How do you decide which claims are for overzealous LEOs and which ones are for bozo citizens who really crossed the line?

The insurance industry is an incredibly complex one, and IMO, should be an independent venture rather than an offshoot of this organization. I think that even the insurance "offered" by the NRA is really a policy "endorsed" by them and not really financially connected to the NRA itself. I would be surprised to learn otherwise.

I think the most we could expect here is the advertising of such a product if it ever became a reality, and perhaps feedback from other users who have made use of it.

[Belasarius]

It seems like this could be a very risky undertaking (financially speaking). Is it legal to deny coverage/charge higher rates to someone based on a prior criminal record - which could make them a higher risk? How do you decide which claims are for overzealous LEOs and which ones are for bozo citizens who really crossed the line?

It's definitely a 3rd party thing I'm looking for. I heard back from Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network and it's just a membership organization wrapped around that one thing, representing the member in court after a shooting. They suggested what I was proposing was a pre-paid legal plan.

I think that even the insurance "offered" by the NRA is really a policy "endorsed" by them and not really financially connected to the NRA itself. I would be surprised to learn otherwise.

Yes, NRA fronts for 3rd party providers of services although I'm going to follow up on what specifically they offer in the way of legal services.

I think the most we could expect here is the advertising of such a product if it ever became a reality, and perhaps feedback from other users who have made use of it.

Yes, that was what I was really thinking although I thought that maybe there could be a group rate kind of thing. I don't think the product I am thinking of actually exists but open carry is becoming more popular and there must be millions and millions of concealed carriers. Ending up in court over some technical violation or technical non-violation has to be pretty common.

My son bought a truck drivers pre-paid legal services policy that covers him for things that happen to him on the road or in the truck. They provide a plan lawyer if he has to go to court for any traffic violation. This is the model I am envisioning. The beginning assumption here is that you at least believe that you are carrying legally.

I'll keep looking into it and if I find something useful I'll report back.

[ddefazio]

I have to tell you, it is my opinion that the insurance industry is part of what is wrong with this country. I want more insurance like I want more government, LESS.

No one wants insurance till you are faced with having to use it.